I need help.

[Chris near Kansas City]

You know it's bad if I'm asking, right?

This is as much about keeping my head straight as it is to keep track of what I've done for anyone else like Carl that might have an idea as to what's wrong.

2001 Voyager Xii
47,000 miles
Progressive front springs
Progressive rear shocks
New Avon Venom front with maybe 500 miles
Nearly new Avon rear with maybe 6,000 miles (can't recall for sure)
Clearview +3" oversize shield

In the twisties, the bike is an absolute dream, as if you were riding a GL1800. That is, until you try to stop or twist the throttle. But a dream Voyager on sweepers none the less. The problem is, that I cannot run down the highway without the bike driving me absolutely mad. It wiggles, not quite like a weave, but a nervousness that can only be described as riding on ice. It feels like the back end is loose, or the front end is loose, but then it feels like the back end is loose. Like the back end has bad wheel bearings and the wheel is moving around. It can't settle in and just run straight down the road, like a touring bike should. If you lean over like 10 degrees or more either way, the bike seems to feel fine. Straight up down the interstate will wear you out. I cannot recall a time since I've owned it that the bike didn't do this. I cannot recall for sure that the bike did in fact, do this when I got it. I can't remember. I do know that my '90 is a dream while running down the highway and it's not fair, that that bike runs as well as it does, and rides as well as it does, for everything it's been through, LOL. The '01 is set up exactly how I like it, and exactly how these bikes should run, except for the most basic function of a touring bike. Enough belly aching here's what I've done.

I had been running Metzelers until about 2 years ago when I put Progressive rear shocks on the back. Ran over something on the maiden voyage test run and ended up putting a used front tire off of David in Alabama's 1700 Voyager. Ran decent, but this is where I can't recall for sure, this is the earliest recollection of the bike not running true.

I picked up the rear wheel off John Ramsey's '03 trike with a practically brand new Avon on it, about a year and a half back, or thereabouts, and put it on. Ran the bike like that until about 3 or 4 months back, as the wiggle on the highway was starting to get to me. I wondered if it was the old, now older front tire off the 1700 that was causing the issue, so I put a new Avon on the front. It was about time for a new tire anyway, but except for my wallet being lighter, no change.

Mostly in order, but not 100% in order, I did the following:

Dropped the front spring air pressure from 8 lbs to 5lbs. No change.
Took all the air out of the front forks. No change.
Loosened the front fork and checked for straightness. No change.
Dropped the Progressive rear shocks down from the #3 notch to the 2nd notch. No change.
Checked play in front wheel bearings and no play found.
Checked play in front steering and steering falls to one side with slight drag as recommended.
Torqued the steering stem to 92-95 in.lbs. No change.
Checked swing arm for play. None found.
Checked '03 wheel with less than 5,000 miles on it for loose bearings and no play found.
Torqued the swing arm bearings per the manual to 13 ft.lbs. No change.
Torqued the steering stem to 115 in.lbs. No change.
Re-torqued the swing arm bearings to 13 ft.lbs. per the manual. No change.
Torqued the steering stem to 135 in.lbs. No change.
Double checked no air in the front forks, and dropped the rear Progressive shocks down to the lowest setting. No change.
Torqued the steering stem to 150 in.lbs. No change.
Swapped entire front wheel and Elite 3 off the '90 onto the '01. No change.
Swapped '01 front with new Avon back onto '01.
Retorqued steering stem to 115 in.lbs. No change.
Torqued the swing arm bearings for the 3rd time. No change.
Took the entire front fork off the bike, checked the bearings, good grease, reinstalled without the oring under the jam nut on the steering stem, rotated the upper fork tubes 180 degrees, verified oil level was correct and even in both tubes, eyeballed the most perfectly straight setup and torqued it all down. Set steering bearing torque at 90 in.lbs.

No change.

[Chris near Kansas City]

Took the rear '03 wheel with nearly new Avon off and put on my original '01 rear wheel with 45,000 mile bearings and almost worn Metzeler. No change other than the rock hardness of running 50 lbs of air pressure per the sidewall. I'd put an LOL there, but I've about lost all humor over this fiasco.
Bumped up the LH rear shock up to the 3rd notch and left the RH on #1. Bike was all kinds of squirrelly feeling to the point I couldn't run my normal test distance before heading for home.
Reversed the odd test of shocks on the back to the LH on #1 and the RH on #3. Bike felt more like normal for it. Basically, no change or not much of a change.
Took the swing arm off the bike and inspected the bearings. Look fine. Re-greased and torqued to 13 ft.lbs per the manual and put '03 wheel with the Avon back on the rear. No change.
Put a wrench on any exposed bolt on the frame and everything felt tight.
Backed off the steering stem nut and the adjuster nut, and torqued the adjuster nut as tight as I could get it by hand, no torque wrench, no socket wrench. In other words, just tight enough to hold everything together. No change.

And here I am now, typing this. I talked to Carl about a month back, and one of the things he suggested, was a dragging front brake caliper. I knew I had a lazy caliper on one side, but I pushed the piston(s) in so that the calipers were not in play. Rode it, oh, somewhere around the time of swapping front wheels and there was no change.

About the only things left to do, that I can think of, are the following:
Try and run some strings down the wheelbase to try and check wheel alignment.
Retest the LH rear shock up a notch or two with the RH on #1 and vice versa.
Put the old crappy air shocks on the back and retest. Maybe it's the geometry of the increased ride height? Except that it still does it riding two-up, so, how's that boat floatin' with that hole in it, eh?
Torque the steering nut to 160 in.lbs and increase 10 or 15 in.lbs until the bike begins to wander.
Try a different swing arm?
Strip it to the frame and check every bolt on the stupid thing?
Try a different frame?
Drop it off at Carl's on his doorstep some night in a basket with a bow on it and a note telling him not to call me 'til it's fixed? (and if you think I'm joking......)

I've gone beyond the and am approaching and am pretty much to the point where I'm going to start throwing things. As of right now, I know what color Voyager is taking us to Kanab, and it ain't red. Suggestions?

[David (N. Alabama)]

Yep, you shoulda never rode that wing.

Changed your perspective regarding all other rides.

Happened to me after getting the Concours. Now all my other bikes just don't seem quite up to par.

Is there any vibration felt anywhere when you are riding?

[Chris near Kansas City]

I know. The Wing has been in the back of my mind the whole time. Even if I wanted to sell the '01 (and the other two) to buy a Wing, I can't sell it like it is. And if I get it figured out, I wouldn't want to sell it. Probably, LOL. I don't even have to ride a Wing though. All I have to do is ride the '90 (and we are, believe me) with twice the miles to see how bad this one is.

No vibration felt anywhere that I can tell. If you never took the bike over, say, 50 mph, you'd most likely never know there's a problem. Ran it up to 75+ last night and it was just horrible. I have been running the bike without saddlebags and trunk since first swapping the old rear wheel and Metzeler. Real spunky without the weight.

I don't want to do it, but with the holiday weekend coming up, I might have to swap the entire swing arm/final drive/rear wheel off the '90 onto the '01 to test. Hate having to tear both down and risk upsetting the way the '90 runs, but I don't see much choice at this point. Give me a chance to check the driveshaft on the '90 I suppose.

[Mr Jensee]

About the only thing you haven't said you checked was the drive shaft assemby. Any chance that might be bent causing some undulating vibration?

[VoyKimmer]

Chris, After taking my front end apart last year I had no luck torquing the steering stem to torque using the socket. Kept getting the wobble. Getting tired of removing the handle bars several times to up the adjustment. I just did it the old fashion way and tightened the adjusting nut using a hammer and screw driver until there was drag moving the steering back and forth. Took it for test drives and loosened a very little until the wondering stopped and then it was fine.

[Kevin B in Illinois]

It is starting to sound like it may be coming from the driveshaft. I hope Uncle Rick pipes in on this one. The vibrations happening sound like a driveshaft related thing due to the symptoms you've described. It's hard to diagnose without riding and seeing the bike.


Kevin Braddy
IPVMC
President

[Chris near Kansas City]

Kim, I have thought about tightening the steering nut until it starts to wander, or tighten the crap out of it so I know it's too tight and back it off from there. I know what the wandering feels like, as I had that issue on the '90. And you are right, it gets old fiddling with that nut. This bike is not doing that. But it's probably time to over tighten the stem bearings and retest it.

Kevin and Mr. Jensee, I have a couple spare driveshafts I could try, and/or, if I decide to swap the entire driveline off the '90, I can swap the shaft too.

The bike acts like you are giving the handlebars a constant kick or stab or shake while running down the road.

[Mr Jensee]

Chris you've eliminated just about everything else it could be. The only other thing I can think of is a broken weld on the frame somewhere near the swing arm or shock mounts. something that is flexing or moving while at speed.

[suzib6sw]

Just incase you missed my suggestion elsewhere... Swap the windshield for a more stock shape..
Or move/remove the trunk..
Check the bolts holding the rear fender frame in place too..

Pete

[Chris near Kansas City]

Pete, I swapped the large shield off the '01 to the '90 for the ride to Moonshine and it did not change the way that bike rode. I should have mentioned that. I have not run the '01 with the smaller shield, but logic....oops, there I go again. Simple swap and probably worth the time just to eliminate it.

Trunk is currently not even on the bike and does not change regardless of setup.

Rear frame section will most likely come off this weekend, but shock bolts are tight. Rear fender and fender support have been on and off 4 times in the last 3 weeks. Saddlebag mounts are tight and the bike currently does not have the saddelbags on it.

Chris

[JHD]

My '92 had worn splines on the rear wheel hub which made for a very sloppy fit with the final drive. Bought a good used splined hub for the wheel from Carl and everything is tight as a drum now. I thought mine had a little wobble/shimmy like you've described when I first purchased the bike last year but after all the maintenance work everything is tight now and cruises like a real champ.

[Jim&Debbie]

I had posted awhile back with similar problems I have with my '87 XII.

It seems as though my bike refuses to stay perfectly vertical while driving in a perfectly straight line, I feel the bike is constantly tilting ever so slightly to the left or right which then causes the bike to wander ever so slightly, very frustrating.

My bike also has a "hinge in the middle" feel when making wide sweeping turns at speeds above 50, which can get scary at times.

Would love to get rid of both these problems!!

[Chris near Kansas City]

Assuming you already have Progressive springs up front, I fixed the hinged in the middle problem with Progressive shocks in the back. Love them.

When I had the steering bearings too tight on the '90, it acted just as you described. You could not keep it straight. It wanted to wander over this way, then over that way, then back this way, etc.

Most of you have probably seen, or experienced concrete highway sections where they come back and sand/grind/shave off the top layer. It leaves little grooves in the road surface, probably 3/8" wide and if you look down at the surface running by under your feet, or down through the fork tunnel, you can see those lines wiggling back and forth. Imagine both wheels following those grooves and that'll give you some idea as to how this '01 is acting, except that the front and rear wheels aren't moving in the same groove.

I may have to mount one of my cameras under the bike, or have someone ride it while I follow, to see what shows up.

[Mr Jensee]

I'm curious as to how much you guys weigh. I weigh right now 240 lbs. and have no problems with the bike but I can see if you weigh like 280 or more that there could be flexing in the fork giving that feeling. Any thoughts about using a fork brace?

[suzib6sw]

Hmm... I experienced that with the E3 Rear/ Metzler front combo.. Bike would wander over 60 and get really bad at 80.. Was hard work..
Went E3/E3 and it was fine..
Come to think of it.. with the Old EIIs front and rear on the 94, they did that too but they were worn.. the front especially..

Im a featherweight.. 140Lb .. The 94 is set up with 0lb (progressive springs) forks ,36lb in the front tire and 25Lb rear shocks on #2 preload and 40Lb tire.
Headstock at 95 inch/lb and a slipstreamer.

86 is progressives front and rear.. (no air) (metzler front at 36psi and Fullbore rear at 40Lb) Rear progressives at #2 notch. Headstock at 95inch/ln and a clearview 2"+2" ( i think, Def wider that stock and 2" taller than the slipstreamer.

Oh yes.. Superbraces on both.. the old plain solid ones..

Pete

[gearheadfla]

I'm curious as to how much you guys weigh. I weigh right now 240 lbs. and have no problems with the bike but I can see if you weigh like 280 or more that there could be flexing in the fork giving that feeling. Any thoughts about using a fork brace?

I'm ticking 300 and have no problems like this even riding 2up with Lori at 130. Is the frame tweaked? Has it been doing this as long as you've owned the bike? Maybe it's been down and frame is a little twisted. Just trying to help figure this out.

[Chris near Kansas City]

240

Bike has a superbrace. In fact, both bikes have one.

I don't recall Mike ever saying anything about the bike being down. Worst I remember him saying was catching a dog chain anchor in the yard and cracking the front air scoop.

[JHD]

It wouldn't hurt giving your old crappy shocks another try. Personally I don't find them crappy at all. I serviced mine last year draining and refilling them as recommended. I found that some of the advice on refilling the shocks is bogus and if the servicing is done following the manual procedure the shocks will perform very well for many many miles. My thought on the stock shocks is the left side one only has one air fitting on it which makes it a real bear to service. If you got another right side shock and put it on the left side you could plug one fitting off which would make servicing the set a breeze.

Chris I hope you find the problem soon. It seems like you are running out of things to check. It sure seems like something is tweaked to cause the condition you describe.

[Nathan (South Carolina)]

Chris, I am also thinking that your problem could be with the Progressive springs on the rear. I don't recall Mike ever saying anything about dropping or wrecking the bike either. I am still using the stock rear shocks on my '01 and haven't found a need to go to Progressives springs on the rear except for the elimination of air. They still work fine and the bike handles great for my riding style.