HELP! Starting problem

[WayneA]

Hi Guys,
I've got a serious starting problem. I've had this '86 Voyager about 5 years now. It has been doing good with occasional slow starting. Several months ago I replaced the 3 yr old battery with a new AGM and it cranked great. Then a few weeks ago the present problem reared it's ugly head. It will turn over fast for about 3 seconds then goes to like a solenoid clicking. I've jumped the battery with a car battery and still the same. Then I went through the starting circuit and cleaned all the connections. Next I had the starter bench checked by my auto electric guy and he says it's good. Starter, brushes and commutator was cleaned up. I have shorted across the starter motor relay with same results. That and the starter relay seem to pull up fine. If starter is connected but not bolted in, it turns over fine. I'm pulling my hair out at this point. I still suspect the starter has a short or heats up and binds up or something that was not picked up on bench testing. I know you guys are a lot smarter and experienced on these things so hoping somebody has some more ideas. It's a great bike with only about 70K on it and I want to keep it but not sure about that now. Being retired on SS, I can't take it somewhere and give them a blank check and say "fix it" so sure hope someone can figure this out. Take care and ride safe..........Wayne

[doug of so fla]

When you push button is starter getting 12v meaning starter button contacts could be bad? Another one is are you sure the starter is not spinning but just not engaging? In other words when you have the starter out, stick your finger in the engine hole and the gear that the starter turns is the starter clutch and you should only be able to turn it in one direction if it turns both ways , starter clutch needs to be replaced. Also can you bypass XII wiring and turn over engine with just starter hooked up to 12v? Just guessing these. Also by your mileage I would think that the starter chain has been replaced ? If the clicking you here is actual solenoid clicking try a different starter solenoid. Still guessing.. Give Carl Leo a call and see if he can help you. He is just back from the hospital and may be available. He had a heart bypass, but his brain is probably sharp as ever.

[WayneA]

Hi Doug,
Thanks for reply. I do have 12v at starter and it turns over engine ok but only for a few seconds. I believe starter chain was replaced. It does about the same and barely turns over when I jump starter itself with 12v from external source. Starter gear is only turning one way and appears to be working fine. I looked for Carl's number but only see his e-mail. Would you have it so I could call him? I will give e-mail a try first and keep in mind time difference. Thanks for your help.........Wayne

[ekap1200]

Hello Doug, What is the general condition of the bike? Does is stay outdoors or garaged ?
If it was bench tested by a rebuild shop and looked over by someone that works on starters for a living , I would be looking at the cables. If you own a fairly good VOM meter a (voltage drop ) test is what you would want to do, starting with the negative cable you would set the meter to DC volts put the negative lead to the negative post on the battery. Then put the positive lead of the voltmeter to the end of the ground cable where it is connected to the engine.
Now have an assistant hold the throttle open and depress the stater button.
If the cable is bad then the engine block will become more positive and the meter will show a reading. If it is an analog meter and the needle just begins to move , stop and lower the meters range down to about 3 volts DC and repeat. There should be no voltage reading if the cable is good.
Then move on to the positive cable from the battery to the start soleniod. Place the meters positive lead on the battery and the negative on the end of the cable that attach's to the starter solenoid . same procedure , then across the solenoid (but with the meter set at 12 V)
when checking the solenoid it will read battery voltage and when engaged it should drop down to 0 volts. then finally the cable from the solenoid to the starter. meter positive to the output side of the solenoid and negative to the starter's terminal. Before you go thru this have your New battery tested, maybe your not charging up the batt. I read it worked fine when you replaced the batt with new. Keep us up to date. Gene Kap.

[Mr Jensee]

It's an 86 model. Has anyone asked if he has the original ignitor on it? Wasn't that the defective unit that needed to be replaced?

[chevyman1]

Put a volt meter on the battery when the starter slows down see what your voltage is, if it drops down below 12V you probably have a bad cell in the battery.
If not try cleaning your ground connections, battery and engine ends.

[doug of so fla]

Wayne: Just so we are on the same page, what everyone is trying to say is to check and see if your battery is good!! Load test means the battery may be able to have a 12v "Surface Charge" but if the battery or cables have a short in them, the battery will not let current (AMPS) to starter, even if you jump start, meaning connect other 12v to your battery and your battery has a short in it, it will not let the current from the good battery flow thru it. When you put a "LOAD" on a bad battery it WILL do what you describe. It will try to start and then short out. Starter spinning is not a "LOAD" but turning over engine is. DO what Debron & Gene & Chevyman1, suggest or if you do not have a meter take battery to a auto parts store and have them do a "free" load test. If battery is good then we have to go try something else. Carl's# 731-413-8666, as you said e-mail him first..

[Gator Mike]

It's an 86 model. Has anyone asked if he has the original ignitor on it? Wasn't that the defective unit that needed to be replaced?

Don't mean to panic here but I second Mr Jensee's post. Have you looked at the ignitor and seen if it has 1179 as the last four of part number. If so that could cause you problem when the battery was low. The timing would advance too much and cause a slow start and it also could break the starter chain. You said the starter chain had been replaced but was the ignitor module changed also. If so I think the last four of the part numer should be 1248. If it is 1179 I highly suggest not trying to start the bike untill it is replace......Best of luck......Gator Mike

[JHD]

A fully charged battery that has been sitting a few days should read around 12.5-12.8 dcv. I would check everything stated above. If you have a batteries plus or the place you bought your battery from could test it for you. Check that your grounds are clean and tight also.

[ekap1200]

Hi Wayne, The last time you rode it did you happen to notice the neutral lamp with the bike idling . Was it bright green and steady in intensity, or did it seem to pulse.
Seems like you had the problem, then replaced the batt , then its started and ran ok , then back to the original problem. Is this correct ?

[WayneA]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the great replys!! Luckily, the problems are solved!! Sorry I did not answer you right away but after doug of so fla told me to contact Carl Leo, that is exactly what I did. I made a few calls to Carl and he helped me with the troubleshooting. It turns out I had a bad starter and an old igniter. I was told it was the new igniter when I bought the bike but Carl confirmed that it was not. I just received the parts today and installed them. The bike started quicker than it ever has! Like Carl said, I was so lucky that igniter didn't really screw me up. You guys are so lucky to have a guy like Carl around!. After just getting back from the hospital he was still able to ship me the parts right away. Thanks again to all and especially Carl!!

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

Carl truly is a Special Friend to all here!

[Lucasind]

Dodging a BULLET is always a good thing .... This could have turned out VERY badly (still having that original igniter).....all is well that ends well.......congrats....!

[ekap1200]

Good to hear you got it going, Should have stuck to your gut instinct, that the starter was the problem. Being there at the bike is the best troubleshooting step to take. Unless your Carl Leo ,who has seen more voyager issues than anyone I know.
Or he has a