86 voyager running rich but still takes choke to start

[truckerchaz]

Hello. I have an 86 voyager That has been sitting , no sure how long , I bought it this way. I bought used carbs and rebuilt them. The set that were on it were completely green inside and jets wouldn't even come out . Replaced plugs and wires and ran seafoam thru 2 tanks of gas. Bike starts right up on choke but idles rough once choke is off and still runs rich out both tail pipes. All four header pipes are hot to touch . # 3 plug is a little wet . No gas is coming out over flow on carbs like it would b flooding. I drained all 4 carbs and used old bowls to measure fuel into. All the same amount of fuel and just below seam at carb base. Also copper overflow pipes in bowls are clear so fuel should drain if flooding ??

[Nails]

Perhaps the idle is set too slow?

Mine sometimes takes a lot of turns to make what seems like a small change. I think that's a side effect of CV carbs, where lots of different things are mutually dependent, but pretty much everything depends of air velocity through the carb. I mean, don't be surprised if the richness goes away with correct idle speed.

[truckerchaz]

thank you for your response Nails. I will try turning idle up tmrrw (Wednesday). I tried synching ystrdy for the second time .idk what else to try. it seems that all but 1 carb will stall bike now if I pull vac line off. update. I put the fuel screws that came in carbs back in , I figured for what it was worth I wld remove the new ones I bought and put old ones back in. I have yet to get # 2 screw swapped out as I ran out of time and need to pull alternator so my hands will fit under # 2. it just so happens that # 2 is the 1 that will not stall the engine with vac port unplugged. cld fuel mix screw b effecting vacuum ?? I wanna switch it back tmrrw a.m. then try to chk synch with airbox in place . looks tight but I think its possible . any thoughts on vacuum difference, also do u think if #2 air screw is to rich that it cld smell rich out both tailpipes? there is that big cross over or equalizing area in exhaust b4 going out to 2 tailpipes.

[Nails]

I doubt your major problem is carbs out of synch; and I'd fuss with that about last.

Did you rule out all the other probable culprits, like compression and spark density. The carbs are difficult to rebuild right, especially if you didn't get many new parts. It isn't uncommon to hear of problems found only after the second or third re-rebuilds. I recommend searching here for posts about Keihin carbs -- there's a million things that could be your problem. It can be hard to wrap your head around how Keihin carbs work. And they really can't be clean enough.

I'd go back to manual carb specs after double-checking that the rebuild was copacetic. (You'll need a manual.)

When first bought, my bike ran crappy. It took a long time to go through everything to sort it. It had multiple minor problems plus a couple more significant ones (like stuck rings). I had the carbs off at least a half-dozen times -- chasing speculations just won't get it.

But for sure, you'll want to get the idle right (if at all possible) before screwing around with jetting and synch. [Edit: and I don't think you can check the synch with the air cleaner hooked up.]

[truckerchaz]

thanks for your help Nails. I ordered new ngk plug caps . they are supposed to b in today. I put my ohm meter on one of my caps and cant get it to read anything. I had to really scratch my meter tip around on screw end of cap to make it read and it only flashed 5.68 for a second then went back to no reading . I assume that it should read just by touching , no scratching needed. I tried this with 2 different meters and both were doing same thing. I also have ngk iridium plugs coming today as well. im not 100% sure this will fix my prob but it will definitely help. I have a compression tester on order too but unfortunately it is not coming today . im hoping my local auto parts store has one I can borrow, if not I will install new caps and plugs later today and see if that helps. with the battery removed its fairly easy getting at #2 #3plugs. Ill update over the weekend with my progress or lack there of.

[Barry]

So did you get the iridium plugs & ngk caps installed over the weekend?

[truckerchaz]

UPDATE! I put the new caps and irridium plugs in . No difference . # 2 cylinder does not change idle if I pull cap off of plug or if take plug off of vacuum port on carb. However it is getting strong spark at # 2. If I pull cap off of any other cylinder or in plug vac on any other carb bike will stall. I checked compression on each cylinder with igniter unplugged so there wld b no spark for bike to start. I turned bike over 3 or times on each cylinder and got right around 90 lbs , I assume that's an ok # ?? I pulled top of carbs off to make sure diaphragms we're good and slides moved easily . All good there so now what? If there is something clogged in carbs y does it run so rich ?? Still seems to run smother with choke partly on but still stinks of gas out exhaust at all rpms with or without choke . Any suggestions ? I'm about rdy to mail the whole bike to Carl . Won't he b surprised when ups shows up with that box ? Lol. Just trying to keep my sense of humor . Ty chuck

[Nails]

90 is kinda low, but I'm not sure it was up to temp. You can't check it very accurately if the engine isn't warm.

Is the #2 header getting hot? What does the new plug look like after (presumably) flailing?

[truckerchaz]

The engine wasn't upto temp when I chkd compression, as far as the header yes all 4 get hot . It's weired because all 4 head pipes get hot but there is clearly a lazy cylinder #2 . I thought maybe #2 isn't getting fuel , but what is causing the terribly rich smell out tail pipes , so bad it burns your eyes . It's almost like I have multiple probs at same time . Maybe one carb is flooding and another is getting to much fuel. The rough idle clears right up with partial choke but still runs rich. I should see how to get ahold of Carl and c if he will rebuild the carbs or sell me a rebuilt set. I will rechk the fuel bowl levels tmrrw . Oh ya the plugs were gray , none are black

[Nails]

Tan would be better.

I'd suggest having a local independent shop look at it. Getting the carbs rebuilt couldn't hurt, but it'd be nice to actually know what's wrong before throwing money at the walls.

I forget whether you said it was rideable. I mean, is the problem only at low RPMs and no load?

I chased a problem like that on a neglected XII. Mine turned out to be a stuck ring, a wildass idea somebody suggested here. (Long story, but it actually made sense in hindsight.) I fixed it by putting that cylinder all the way down and then filling it with Seafoam down the sparkplug hole. It leaked into the crankcase; and I filled it again, maybe three times. Drained the oil down to about the right level, started it, and the problem vanished. Changed the oil, took a long, hot ride, and it's been fine ever since.

In other words, I don't know what's wrong with your bike.

[truckerchaz]

I appreciate all the time u taken to respond nails . It is rideable seems fine on highway just rich smelling

[Barry]

Time to do a 150-200 mile ride and check mpg. If it's less than 42-43 mpg then you may have a fuel delivery problem. One vxii I had would rarely get above 45 mpg. My '87 used to consistently get 50-54 mpg, 2 up and pulling a trailer. Ironically it didn't get any better mpg when riding solo. There's others that have reported getting mid 30's mpg when riding 2 up & pulling a trailer. The carbs I got from Carl smell rich at idle. Plugs look fine so I just ignore that & ride.

[Nails]

For mine, the gas mileage is very dependent on right-hand twistage. I get low 40's cruising at 85, but low 50's at 55 and high 50's at 45 (I was able to measure this over a whole tank on the BRP).

For my stuck ring (not a fuel delivery problem, just as Barry says), the bike ran great at speed, including good MPG. (As I recall, near 50 MPG cruising mostly at 60-65 MPH -- which confused me at the time.) You can't synch the carbs if you have an idle issue -- much less chase high-altitude jetting or the pilot screw (I live at about 7800 feet and brought mine up from much lower elevation in Colorado). Mine apparently had low compression at idle or so. It's conceivable that the 90 PSI you measured goes up in all the other cylinders when warm and also goes up in #2 at higher RPMs. Not pushing this stuck ring theory, just saying it still might be possible -- as an alternative to a carb issue. (The header on my problematic cylinder also got hot, but not as quickly as the other cylinders. You'd have to check at the right time after a cold start.)

Again, I don't pretend to know what the problem is with your bike. I still recommend riding it to your local independent (who surely could use the business), because there's nothing like hands-on diagnosis. My local dude is only interacting with customers on the phone -- has a sign on the door to either call ahead or drop it off with a note and your phone number. I can roll with all that, mostly because I like the guy (SMR in Santa Fe). I'd be happy to leave him alone with my bike and the keys -- I'm sure he would've figured out my problem long before I did. I didn't spend much money on unnecessary repairs, but I sure did a lot of other diagnostics like popping the valve covers (which leaked anyway) and pulling the carbs several times. YMMV. Pun intended, you're welcome.