New Tires

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Re: New Tires

Post by KPAX »

Tires have improved dramatically in the past decade, especially sport type radials; 17" rubber has probably evolved the most. Bias-belted 15" tires not so much.
There isn't a lot of options for our Voyager's .
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Re: New Tires

Post by GrandpaDenny »

sheiserman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:30 pm It's actually scary on grooved concrete with wind and rain, but it's never let go of the road. Wheels get new bearings when tires are changed too, so that ain't it.
The "wiggle" on grooved payment is a result of the high traction of the tire. Just let the bike do its thing, it's usually the fighting it that makes it scary. It wiggles because the grooves aren't perfectly straight. Nothing wrong with the bike.
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Re: New Tires

Post by sheiserman »

I've been letting it do its thing since day 1. I had signed up for a class in Sheboygan, Wi. at the Road America Track site. I bought the Elite (that was my "only" option) so I would have a brand new tire up front as the rear was still good. I pulled over 10 miles down the interstate and was going to turn around. It felt like something was really wrong. I put new bearings in, so that wasn't a problem. This was on asphalt, not the newer concrete. I already paid for the class and really wanted to do it so I let it do it's thing for the duration of the 5 hour trip. It performed wonderfully in the class with the lower speeds. It just wanders at speed. I took it off when I got home and put the old E-3 back on until it was shot. Bought a set of B'stones, and when they were done, I put the Elite back on because I paid for the blankety-blank thing. I'm still riding on it today. It really isn't a "bad" tire. I guess I got used to something else, so any other tire is under scrutiny. I chose to accept the shortcomings of the car tire too.

I originally wanted a Goldwing. I bought the XII because it was cheap, just like the car tire. The whole thing is a compromise driven by dollar signs. If it's cheap enough, I'll deal with it. If it's full price, I get on the computer and complain. I'd like to try the Michelins and Avons, but I'm sitting good on rubber now. I was looking at the Avons on the J&P site when it said they had 2 Elite 4s in our size in stock in Anamosa. Bought them both early this spring.
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Re: New Tires

Post by Scott-(Altoona, PA) »

I had a set of the Exedra's on my XII, ran great. No problems what so ever except in turns the rear tire seemed to be noisier. No handling issues, jist louder tire noise even when close to Jersey Barriers we could hear them.
But they looked great and rode well!
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Re: New Tires

Post by KPAX »

Yeah, my Excedra's make a bit of noise in the corners. My wife and I wear full face helmets with ear plugs so we weren't sure at first but it does seem to be only coming from the rear.

Radials flex side to side whereas bias ply flex lengthwise with the circumference. My understanding is that the added belts in a bias-belted tire can make noise when leaned over. This is dependent on the belt material and belt tension; some belts are "tuned" for handling by increasing thier tension. I am not 100% certain that is the only reason, feel free to correct me on this - I find it interesting.

Another tire that is on my radar is the Avon Cobra Chrome AV91/92. These tires look very robust on paper, the front is bias belted and is rated at 74H, the rear is 80V. They claim to be high grip AND high mileage (must be why they're high dollar).
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Re: New Tires

Post by drtechnology »

Nails wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:31 pm Lots of tire threads here. But things change and I appreciate the update.

I'm sure that on this AVA site, 404's would win the Worst Tire award, hands down. Most people here (including me) seem to have a bad 404 story. I think I mentioned in your earlier post that these tires may do fine on other bikes, just not XII -- based only on what I read.

I like Pirelli MT66 for traction and handling, especially in the wet. I've pushed them much harder than I'd choose because I did some dumbass error -- high pucker experience, but the tires took care of me. After 7-8K in the last year, they're toast. I'll refer back here to decide what to replace them with in the Spring. I might go darkside given that I'm liking and riding long distances more. Or I might stick with MT66. Haven't really given it much thought.

Speaking of dumbass moves, I broke some ribs due to hard sidewalls. This was on a d/s and DOT knobbies (Kenda Triple), so probably doesn't have anything to do with what you're talking about. But because of the super stiff sidewalls, the front tire apparently was completely flat but I didn't know it. Not even on the freeway. The problem was getting frisky going around an intersection, when the bead broke. If anything in this sad story is relevant, it might be to highly recommend TPMS. I really like being able to check the XII tire pressure every time I start it, and any other time I want, without having to crawl in the dirt.
https://my-fobo.com/product-family/FOBO_Bike_2

They also make a trike version

Trust me it updates in real time so you will know if u hit a sharp rock, glass or nail in real time. I love it. A bit expensive but 100% worth it - detects slow leaks and everything! Will auto alert you on phone if u get too low or have a leak.
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Re: New Tires

Post by drtechnology »

KPAX wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:42 am I check my tire pressure every week, it just freaks me out not knowing. I looked into MT66's but wasnt sure so I went with the bias-belted front. I am ok with 7-8,000 miles if the price is right. I am glad to hear that they stuck when you needed them; tires today are pretty damn good.
https://my-fobo.com/product-family/FOBO_Bike_2

NO more need to check - 100% accurate and alerts u of a leak or low pressure in real-time - even while riding
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Re: New Tires

Post by drtechnology »

Testimnials are great but unless they make a 15" runflat count me out. As the beginning of this thread shows, someone was riding on a BIKE tire almost no air and it finally broke, but he was good on it till it went to near enmpty. Car tires forget about it - and if a blowout on a car tire wowza - look out.

Just my .02 cents or I would switch asap but as stated no runflats for our bikes :(
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Re: New Tires

Post by Barry »

If anyone is thinking about going dark side for the first time, I have a suggestion. Go look at a nexen tire that will fit the vxii. Check out how thin & flexible the sidewall is. Then go look at just about any brand of motorcycle tire. The nexen max pressure is 36 lbs. I had to run 40 psi to eliminate sidewall flex. Overall The performance was impressive. Fantastic in the rain. Good weight rating, etc... After running it 5,000 miles with no detectable wear, I switched back for the piece of mind. That and a TPMS unit and I'm a confident happy rider.
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Re: New Tires

Post by KPAX »

If an E3/E4 or equivalent rear tire is lasting 20,000 miles what is the reason for going darkside?
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Re: New Tires

Post by Barry »

Cost. Dark side tires easily last 30-35,000 miles for less than $75. Most people replace motorcycle rear tires anywhere from 12-18,000 miles. Beyond that, the rubber compound gets harder and doesn't like to stick in the rain or cooler weather. JMHO.
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Re: New Tires

Post by sheiserman »

Barry wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:56 pm Cost. Dark side tires easily last 30-35,000 miles for less than $75. Most people replace motorcycle rear tires anywhere from 12-18,000 miles. Beyond that, the rubber compound gets harder and doesn't like to stick in the rain or cooler weather. JMHO.
That's the ONLY reason I did it. I'm lucky the local tire store will even do it for me. I've read where most won't, certainly no motorcycle shop would do it.
It took them 3 days to get it done, so there is no real advantage to it for them.

There's a site called ADVrider that has a 175 page thread going about this topic. Some of it is actually pretty interesting. Both sides try their very best to use science to prove why it is or isn't a good idea. Winning is everything.

If it cost $300 to run a car tire, it's still a better deal. Neither safety nor science enter the equation for me. If I was really worried about either, I wouldn't be on a motorcycle.
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Re: New Tires

Post by Nails »

sheiserman wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:59 pmBoth sides try their very best to use science to prove why it is or isn't a good idea. Winning is everything.
That sums up tire threads even before bringing up darkside. There's precious little "using science". It's just folks insisting darkside can't possibly be good (generally untested opinions) vs folks subjectively reporting better traction and handling.

I didn't go darkside last time because I needed a tire and didn't have time to screw with at least the potential hassles of mounting it. And I wasn't riding all that much, so I thought the tire would rot before I got half way through it's life. But now: 1) I'm riding more; 2) have other bikes to ride while screwing with this mounting; and 3) will soon have a bike lift table. So, I'm inclined to approach those mounting hassles and give darkside a spin.

Nothing precious about it. Follow your own arrow, and god bless. There are perfectly good reasons to stick with m/c tires.

Does anyone know of a wreck that was attributed to darkside?

https://www.haulnride.com/the-dark-side ... otorcycles (Spoiler: 11 to 11 tie.) And great vids, including dragging pucks on tour bikes with darkside!
https://forum.ironbutt.org/index.php?th ... 2%80%9D.9/ ("Despite my successful personal experience, I think car tires are best avoided.")
https://www.gtamotorcycle.com/xf/thread ... ng.209575/ Guy seems to know what he's talking about, anyway.
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Re: New Tires

Post by KPAX »

I guess I just don't get it. From what I have read it saves $100 - $200 per year and it handles well at a leisure pace but what happens wheen the "soot" hits the fan and you have to make a high speed menuever to avoid an obstacle? Does it require a whole new skill-set to ride at the limit? It seems to be limited to touring bikes and mostly older touring bikes at that. By all accounts it is illegal for shops to mount a car tire on a motorcycle rim, I am guessing there is a good reason for that. It's something that I would never feel comfortable with. I'll gladly spend the extra $200 knowing that all of the rider trainer I have invested in will still be relevant in the event of a holly "soot" moment.
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Re: New Tires

Post by Nails »

Thanks.

My point was that there doesn't seem to be much evidence that high-speed maneuvering is actually compromised, or that any modified skill set is actually necessary. If these potential problems were real, we'd surely be seeing it by now with dead darksiders.

This AVA website has lots of hacks, such as alternative parts and electrical system mods. I see darkside as another one of those.

Don't know whether you watched this vid (https://youtu.be/rNlhHBr9-1I), which was a link in one of the ones I sent. I have a hunch you'd like it, if for no other reason than the silliness of wearing racing leathers on a big tour bike. It shows how a CT responded to pretty-much full-on road racing demands. (There just had to be elevated concern about crashing!)

So yes, I don't think darkside makes much sense anywhere except touring. (Seems especially good for touring that involves a lot of dirt roads.) But within those side-rails, I hesitate to dismiss it out-of-hand. (But what do I know? I've had problems following The Rules all my life.)
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Re: New Tires

Post by KPAX »

Everybody has thier own ways of saving a few bucks; this is not one for me.
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Re: New Tires

Post by Barry »

Nails wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:21 pm Don't know whether you watched this vid (https://youtu.be/rNlhHBr9-1I), which was a link in one of the ones I sent. I have a hunch you'd like it, if for no other reason than the silliness of wearing racing leathers on a big tour bike. It shows how a CT responded to pretty-much full-on road racing demands.
So yes, I don't think darkside makes much sense anywhere except touring. (Seems especially good for touring that involves a lot of dirt roads.) But within those side-rails, I hesitate to dismiss it out-of-hand. (But what do I know? I've had problems following The Rules all my life.)
So this video disproves the statement made by the ironbutt article. The contact patch of a CT in a straight line is more than double the contact patch of a MT. Even when a CT is leaned over in a turn, the CT contact patch is at least as big, if not bigger than the contact patch of a MT. All that being said, watching the video show how flexible the sidewalls are of the CT. Imagine what would happen if CT picked up a nail and then you went to make a turn. I doubt control could be maintained. That is one of the reasons I switched back to MT. Plus the tires aging faster than I'm riding.....
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Re: New Tires

Post by Nails »

Google translation of the Russian:
What happens if you put a car tire on a motorcycle? How will handling change? Will it turn at all?
Tomorrow, on our channel, a detailed answer to this question, and today, as an announcement, several laps on a BMW K1600GTL motorcycle with a Formula Energy 205/50 R17 car wheel on the Leader karting track.

I think this is the "tomorrow" post:
Car tire on motorcycle. Experiment.
What happens if you put a car tire on a motorcycle? How will handling change? Will it turn at all? How much pressure should be pumped into a tire fitted to a motorcycle?
Together with our colleagues from the MotoExpert magazine, we decided to conduct an experiment, installed a car wheel on a BMW K1600GTL motorcycle and see how this will affect its performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M48z8_a2U6w

Probably has lots of useful info ... if you understand Russian. Otherwise, it's just some insane dude riding way too fast in traffic.
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Re: New Tires

Post by sheiserman »

This issue still hasn't been definitively solved , has it?

I wear work boots when I ride, and I've read about that too......

All this tire talk did get me to put the E-4 on yesterday. Spent the day in Wisconsin grinding the green stripe off it. I like it.
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Re: New Tires

Post by Nails »

Oh hell, it'll never be definitely solved ... any more than you can get everybody to agree that XII are the best bikes ever made. :lol:

I think the take-home is: What ever makes your balls bounce. It's a big world.

I also wear hideous 35 y/o fire boots and new combat boots, basically depending on whether it's hot out. I don't see ANY reason to make this too complicated.
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