Front End Diving under Braking

[GrandpaDenny]

Hi guys, this has been on my mind for a couple weeks. I don't remember who it was that mentioned it - but he has a couple of times - about hitting the rear brake first to limit front-end diving. It doesn't matter. If your front end is diving excessively under braking, it's NOT your braking technique that needs work, it's your suspension. Our bikes are big, heavy, and old, and the front springs wear out. Replace them. The rear shocks need attention - change the oil in them or replace them.

[SgtSlag]

Guilty. I mention it, often. I do, however, agree with you: fork oil wears out, it needs to be changed periodically; fork springs and seals wear out, too -- I highly recommend Progressive brand,, dual rate springs, made for many bike types, including Voyager XII's; I also am a fan of Progressive rear shocks, also with dual rate springs. I have posted on these topics many times as well.

I have to ask, have you tried my recommendation? I learned it from a renowned pro, in a book on motorcycle riding techniques. I am a parrot, I repeat the techniques which I find useful and effective.

I will refrain from posting about it in the future. My apologies. Cheers!

[GrandpaDenny]

I use different braking techniques under different situations, and to be honest I don't put a whole lot of forethought into it. At really slow speeds, I use the rear brake for better control. I also use the rear brake without the front brake when coming to a stop, especially if I've got the handlebars turned. I use the rear brake whilst trail braking in high-speed turns; I also use the front if I need more braking power. I sometimes use the front brake alone if I've got my feet up on the highway pegs, for slowing down, especially if my right foot and ankle are giving me trouble.

I've now got Progressive springs fore and aft. I love them, absolutely love them, in the rear. I'm still not sure about the front. I wonder if I need to have a different oil level, or maybe lighter or heavier oil. The roads around here are sh*t. Then again, the forks could be set up perfectly, and it's just that the roads are so bad. I was riding with the club over the weekend, with a couple of 1800 Goldwings - an early and a late ('18). Watching them bounce around on this one rough road we were on it seems that they don't ride any better than Gertrude, about the same. So I guess I've got her about where she needs to be <shrug>.

BTW the order was '18 'wing, Gertrude, early 1800 'wing. When the '18 got frisky, Gertrude and I were right with her (even with her bad carbs). The older 1800 didn't have a chance ;)

Just sayin'

[Nails]

I use different braking techniques under different situations, and to be honest I don't put a whole lot of forethought into it.

The guiding light for me is to avoid upsetting the chassis when I'm already trying not to crash. Like applying the front brake progressively instead of just snapping it on. Even slow learners like me can pick this up pretty quick, when picking up a dirt bike. I think I'd have a hard time surviving road bikes if I didn't ride dirt bikes first.

I also use the front if I need more braking power.

My neighbor is a retired m/c cop, and he's certified to teach cop m/c safety. He talked about an exercise that involved hard braking right out of a turn. They progressively shortened the distance to something he considered truly amazing. He talked like this was the biggest deal in the whole program.

None of this is news. Practice is a good thing. But like Will Rogers said, "Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement." So all this is basically just a matter of surviving the necessary accumulation of bad experience.

I wonder if I need to have a different oil level

Just a guess, but I suspect that the right oil level mostly depends on the headspace volume; and that the manual doesn't consider the air tubing and manifold. When I dumped the front air, I removed the whole manifold assembly and plugged the holes in the forks. So I went with the manual level instead of the higher level recommended on this forum.

Like you, I'm happy with my setup, but I plan to change both the fork and shock oils this winter. If the ATF that's in them now comes back clean, I'll go back to real fork oil. Probably 7.5 wt in both.

[SgtSlag]

GrandpaDenny, it took me a while to see my blind spot: I thought I had posted that I was referring to straight-line braking, in my "lead with the rear' comments. You are correct on many points. There are different braking techniques for different situations. Again, my apologies.

If I post on it in the future, I will try to remember to couch it in the proper context, to avoid misunderstandings. Thank you for helping me to see past my blind spot. Cheers!

[GrandpaDenny]

SgtSlag, I was NOT telling you what you could or could not say, far from it! That's how we learn from each other, and become better riders, better motorcyclists, better mechanics maybe; in any case, that's how we come to enjoy our sport and our chosen steeds more and more, together.