Another Noobie. Clutch 93 XII

[Freaky_1]

Well, I've wanted one for many years and finally bought one (picking it up tomorrow).

It's going to need a ton of work as it's been sitting for 3 years, but I'm for for the task at the price I got it. Going to do a full fluid flush / replace, replace brake hoses, clean and rebuild the carbs, and get it running, then see what all it needs.

The one thing I know it needs right off the bat is the clutch. There was a recall as I'm sure everyone knows, and it seems this one never got it, but none the less, it needs clutch work. Hopefully just frictions and perhaps steels and springs, but I have no clue as of yet.

I've been told by a few that the clutch basket in my model is not desirable and would be best to swap to a later style clutch .......... and the opposite from others, so I'm asking people that would actually know. Any advice for the newbie?

Also, any advice other than the obvious (elec. connectors, fluids, hoses and full cooling system check / repair)?

My plans are as follows: (pending suggestions from others here)
Drain / flush all fluids
Pressure test cooling system
Clean / di-electric all elec. connectors
Clean carbs and make it make enough noise to see what I'm dealing with
THEN get to the clutch and make other mechanical repairs of items found to that point.

After all that, I can get into the thick of it and start some honest "functional restoration".

Going with Amsoil motorcycle oil unless there's a reason not to.

Here's the old girl as she looked 2 days ago and as she'll look when I pick her up tomorrow.
(sorry for the links, didn't want to downsize the pics so you could actually see her "not so wonderful" condition)
http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss27 ... file-1.jpg
http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss27 ... file-4.jpg
http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss27 ... file-3.jpg

Many Thanks!
Frank

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

The early clutches used a regular style inner hub, the later (94 up, iirc) engines had a slipper inner hub. Jus so's ya know it's the same inner used on the zg1000 concours from 86 to 06. I swapped my 87's inner for a connie slipper and it was a vast improvement on downshifts. you'll need to remove the inner sound damper shield inside the clutch cover; use the 2 star springs and nut used on the later connies and zg12's , and refer to the late model clutch steel setup thicknesses to set the proper stack height. Easy. HTH, Steve

[David (N. Alabama)]

Welcome to the forum Frank.

Just wanted to let you know that Carl Leo will be a great source for parts while you go through your build. His contact information is at the top of the forum.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Welcome to the forum Frank.

Just wanted to let you know that Carl Leo will be a great source for parts while you go through your build. His contact information is at the top of the forum.

+1 on Carl Leo. He has everything you'll need, prices are very reasonable, and he's very helpful with the info. I took on straightening out an 87 and an 01, Carl was a big help with getting both bikes squared away. steve

[biggersm]

Welcome aboard

Wow that is a dedicated restoration project to undertake. The Voyager community will be happy to know that one more XII lives on.

I don't know if Amsoil is energy conserving type oil. Oil with energy conserving in the SAE symbol will make the clutch slip. The most popular of the dinasaour oil is Shell Rotella T 15W40 (they also have a synthetic version). A couple of Voyager riders have got over 300,000 miles using Rotella. I know it is a strange concept to use diesel oil in a gas engine but the results speak for themself. Do a search under "Rotella" in this forum for more info.

Update, just looked at Amsoil web page and the motorcycle oil is designed for a wet clutch so it is probably safe but Rotella is less expensive.

[Freaky_1]

Thanks all!

I'm a believer in Rotella for it's ZDDP content if nothing else (and trust me there's other great characteristics), but as an Amsoil dealer, well. lol

I'm a diesel mechanic who's just recently given up the trade to go back to trucking (youngest Daughter graduated high school this past school year), and I can tell ya this........... Given all the oils that have completely dropped ZDDP from their formula, Rotella is king of the counter oils. It's all that I'd recommend for any flat tappet engine for the very fact (aside of Amsoil that is. lol). Many a chevy 350 is munching cams and lifters these days and people just aren't being informed that most oils no longer have ZDDP in them (sorry for the rant, but even though Rotella has lowered it's ZDDP content, it at least still has it).

Thanks for the welcomes :) actually been a lurker for a few months while searching for an XII.

Aside of one local vender, Carl Leo will be getting quite a bit of business from me :)

Steve, thanks for the info. I'll be hitting Carl Leo up for a full kit as soon as I can justify it (aka, verify condition of the bike).

Any issues with the cooling systems (other than leaking seals from the winter sit) that I should be aware of?

Thanks again,
Frank

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

there's O rings and hoses all over the cooling system. Replace all of them. Replace the Stat. If it hasn't been done, run an add'l ground wire to the thermostat housing, the temp sensore tends to needit. Pull the water pump, replace the oring and see if the shaft seal is trying to work it's way out. Common. If you can't find the seal at a dealer, Carl has the secret PN.
If that bike hasn't run for awhile, or shows the typical ham - fisted maintenance (or lack of any maintenance) I've seen common to these bikes, expect to be sorting the bike out for months like I did with both of mine. OTOH when your finished, you'll know the bike and you'll be able to trust it, which goes a long way when your actually riding it. Steve

[David (N. Alabama)]

I would recommend pulling the fuel tank and giving it a good cleaning along with replacing the fuel lines and fuel filter. Also, service the fuel pump while you are at it. You don't want to service the carbs and then get crap in them from something up stream.

Definitely will want to check wheel, swingarm, and steering head bearings and service the forks and shocks.

It is sad to see a bike that has been neglected, but it sure is nice to see someone come along and breathe new life into it.

[Freaky_1]

Thanks all!

Tank's definitely going to need a full cleaning.
The cooling system will be getting the full treatment (thanks for the heads up on the w/p and several other points I didn't yet know).

Just got her home a couple hours ago. She's actually in MUCH better shape than I'd hoped. Cosmetically, she needs a clean and shine, and needs re-upholstered. That's pretty much it.

Bearings are smooth and without play, but I'd rather tear them all down for a re-grease and inspection.

Going to go ahead and get the later / concours clutch assembly coming.

Speedo drive is dead, hopefully a "cheap" fix.
Missing one lock on the top compartment of the right bag.
As suspected, the throttle cable (or both) is stuck.
Rear master cylinder is stuck.
Cruise control condition unknown due to dead speedo drive, but unconcerned for a while.
Took her to the shop and put her on the frame jig, all's straight.
Means squat really, but the owner's manual and clarion manual are still with it.
Gotta dig the airbox out of it first thing and clear the rat's nest.
Gotta build the forks, and will likely just swap on progressive rear shocks (gonna try out the stocker's first).
There's more, but it's WAY too late to think straight. Off to catch some sleep.


Best shop / repair manual option?

All in all, $800 hopefully well spent.

Thanks again,
Frank

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

Frank, if you got that for 8 bills all I can say is "you did good son"! Welcome to the forum and congrats on the find! You could put 2G into it and still flip it if you wanted or needed to make some $. But since you've been wanting one for a while and spent time searching for it, I'd say you are setting pretty right now. Some folks have seats and back rests that are in great shape and send them off to be re-done, you on the other hand will have to so you can get them done or do them yourself right the way you want!
Keep us updated and post a pic once you've given her the spa treatment and she's had her nails done! I'm betting with very little effort she'll shine nice, some wrenching and a tad of grease on your knuckles and she'll be running smooooooooooooooth!

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

There's a fellow on the concours board who is parting out a hydroe'd engine, I'm sure he'll sell the clutch parts CHEAP. email me and I'll help you get that set up. Personally, I'd get the engine running first before I bought stuff like the clutch parts though. Obviously you're a skilled mechanic, so You know things aren't always as they appear... Steve

[tregal16]

I would recommend pulling the fuel tank and giving it a good cleaning along with replacing the fuel lines and fuel filter. Also, service the fuel pump while you are at it. You don't want to service the carbs and then get crap in them from something up stream.

Definitely will want to check wheel, swingarm, and steering head bearings and service the forks and shocks.

It is sad to see a bike that has been neglected, but it sure is nice to see someone come along and breathe new life into it.

While you are at it, don't forget to check to see if the zip tie is still attached up near the neck of the frame on the left side. If it is, cut it, it will save you grief later down the road. What happens is the tie will eventually cause the wires to break inside ( in many cases the insulation will appear intact).

[Freaky_1]

Frank, if you got that for 8 bills all I can say is "you did good son"! Welcome to the forum and congrats on the find! You could put 2G into it and still flip it if you wanted or needed to make some $.

I feel great about the deal myself. I bought it in the mind-set that I could drop an additional 3G into it and still come out with the bike I want and how I want it.

Some folks have seats and back rests that are in great shape and send them off to be re-done, you on the other hand will have to so you can get them done or do them yourself right the way you want!

Unless I find some furniture in near perfect condition cheap, I'll either be redoing what I have or having it done if I don't have the time at that point. I grew up bouncing between an upulstry shop and a Harley shop. I've done all my own bike seats to date, but if time's short, I'll let someone else do it :)

Keep us updated and post a pic once you've given her the spa treatment and she's had her nails done! I'm betting with very little effort she'll shine nice, some wrenching and a tad of grease on your knuckles and she'll be running smooooooooooooooth!

Could be a while on the manicure shots, but ask and ye shall receive!

There's a fellow on the concours board who is parting out a hydroe'd engine, I'm sure he'll sell the clutch parts CHEAP. email me and I'll help you get that set up. Personally, I'd get the engine running first before I bought stuff like the clutch parts though. Obviously you're a skilled mechanic, so You know things aren't always as they appear... Steve

Thanks! I'll probably be headed back out on the road Monday or Tuesday, so no real time to work a deal just yet, but certainly interested if it's still available when I get back in. She's gonna run. I don't care if I have to do a full overhaul, she's gonna run!

While you are at it, don't forget to check to see if the zip tie is still attached up near the neck of the frame on the left side. If it is, cut it, it will save you grief later down the road. What happens is the tie will eventually cause the wires to break inside ( in many cases the insulation will appear intact).

Great info, thanks! Will be on that later today (bout to go look at a tractor trailer for sale).

~~~ OK a minor update ~~~

She's still surprising me. Turns out the throttle cables are fine. The throttle was stuck on the right outside carb.
Rear master cylinder will need rebuilt / replaced.
I misunderstood how long she'd been sitting, it's been sitting since August 08, so two years... Just the same, sitting neglected is sitting neglected, so moving forward as if she's been sitting since the day she rolled out.
Got the carbs flowing but NOT repaired. Just well enough to hook a test tank up and see how she acts.
Fuel pump is functioning.
Starter solenoid is most likely bad, no biggie.
No radio cover (need to hit Carl Leo up)
Pulled the plugs and bore scoped the cylinders.......... LIKE what I see! Bore hone cross hatching still nice and no mirroring.
Compression is high and even across all 4 (gauge inaccurate, so no actual pressure numbers).
Batt was just sitting loose in tray, will need addressed.
All fluid levels good, but still getting replaced.......... and
Coolant ............ OH BOY .......... He put the red junk in her right before he parked her and well, I'm a tad concerned (think dexcool)

Alot of other little minor things done and / or checked out, but none important to running atm.
Plans are to try and fire her later this evening or tomorrow. Will post my success or failure then.

Thanks again all and have a great one!
Frank

[Freaky_1]

It's a runner!!!!!

Just got her to hit off and run. VERY pleased.

OK, some ice cold tea and back to it.

Frank

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

It's a runner!!!!!
Just got her to hit off and run. VERY pleased.
OK, some ice cold tea and back to it.
Frank

[Freaky_1]

This evening's update.

Obviously, she's a runner. Starts quite easily in fact.
Carbs are in sad shape and have to rebuild them (as expected, so no biggie).
Runs nice and smooth.
I've got the carbs off now and ready to tear in at the next opportunity.
Definitely needs a starter solenoid.
Turns out that the seats are actually good (didn't bother to look really, for the price, just assumed they were junk). Just gotta recover or replace the backrests.
Haven't had her running long enough to check out the charging system and such as I've yet to tear into the cooling system. I want to have her ready to run for prolonged periods before such.

Got to check into some things though.

The fuel pump seems to only run when I've got the starter button depressed, but it may well be a pressure activated system, will need to find out.... any offerings of knowledge?

Went ahead and pulled the fuel tank and cleaned it (not as bad a job as I'd thought), and found that my fuel level sending unit is bad. Will need replaced.

Got to see if carb to breather boots are still available.

Well, that's enough for one day. Will tackle it again at the next opportunity.

Also need some advice on shop / repair manual. What's the best option, just get the factory or is the after-market good?

Anyone know what size fasteners I need to replace those holding the float bowls? I'm bad to replace them with Torx heads anyway.

Thanks again,
Frank

[tregal16]

well it sounds like you are moving in the right direction with the old girl. I love hearing how the progress is coming along. Also, I sent you a PM about the service manual.

[Freaky_1]

well it sounds like you are moving in the right direction with the old girl. I love hearing how the progress is coming along. Also, I sent you a PM about the service manual.

Thank you, Thank you!
Frank

[Mr Jensee]

You can send me an email with an email address that will support 10 mb size files and I will send you a PDF copy of the voyager manuals I have. I noticed yesterday you can also order one on Ebay from some outift selling that PDF service manual for about $7. BTW, you don't sound the least bit freaky

[Freaky_1]

Mighty good of you! Thanks!

lol about my nic. That's what I've been called since long before I forgot where it came from

Frank