I need help.

[David (N. Alabama)]

My '01 ran progressive rear shocks and Race tech springs and emulators and it was like riding on rails.

If you put the cruise control on and lift your hands slightly off the bars does the bike tend to track to one side or the other consistantly or does it just cruise along.

Definitely a mystery. Are the handlebars adjusted evenly?

[pipelinepete]

I'll be watching this topic as my 2001 XII has exactly the same symptoms. The bike absolutely does not like going in a straight line....wanders this way and that at highway speeds. Never had a bike behave like this. Steel grate bridges are absolutely terrifying; feels like I'm on ice.

My setup:
- Progressive suspension, front and rear (3rd click on rear)
- no air in suspension
- Dunlop 404s, almost new
- everything torqued and set per Kawi specs
- 190lb rider and maybe 30lbs of supporting gear distributed among the 3 bags

I know the 404s have a poor reputation but I think they are Kawi-spec tires. I find it difficult to accept I might have to spend $300+ on new tires to solve this issue.

Peter

[Mr Jensee]

Yeah well welcome to the wonderful world of motorcycling. Mine had 404s on them and it wobbled like nothing I'd ever ridden. Almost didn't buy it. One thing I learned a long long time ago. Start a motorcycle savings account or forget about riding. Motorcycles are NOT like cars. They are needy critters who will gobble up your assets in a hurry unless you budget for owning them. Kinda like getting the cuddly puppy and realizing it grows up to be the great dane who eats you out of house and home. I spent four grand on a FREE 1979 GS1000 back in the early 90's. Didn't intend on it but it needed everything and I thought it would be great to restore. I ended up giving it away just to break the Ebay addiction it had led me into. Still even new bikes will get you into a spending addiction just upgrading and tweaking. Ask me how I know...

[Chris near Kansas City]

David. Rick rode it and tried that and it veered off to the right. I haven't really tried that, but I think I don't sit on the bike level. Bars are even, but not even with the notches. Either my arms are not the same or every voyager I own or have ridden has the center bar off somewhat.

[Bruce in OK]

Peter,
I wouldn't change anything else on your bike until you are rid of the 404's. They may be Kawasaki specific, but not Voyager specific. The bike is too heavy for the 404. I had one on for a brief time. Handling suffered, wear was erratic, and service life was about half of what it should have been.

Chris,
Have you changed the oil in your Gremlin Bell? Just a thought. I hate it when something acts funky like that--I just hope it doesn't straighten up and ride straight before you figure out what's going on?

I rebuilt a 4-71 Detroit once (running six at the time). The engine wouldn't run correctly. We finally figured out (after several calls to United Engines) that the camshaft we put in had been ground to advance the timing. Before, we had advanced timing with the gear train. The engine was double advanced and didn't like it when we tried to run the thing.

[David (N. Alabama)]

David. Rick rode it and tried that and it veered off to the right. I haven't really tried that, but I think I don't sit on the bike level Bars are even, but not even with the notches. Either my arms are not the same or every voyager I own or have ridden has the center bar off somewhat.

OK. I'm thinking a 'skilled' chiropractor can fix you and the bike.

So, you lined up the front and rear wheels, then determined a focal point where the seat meets the tank, then measured from the end of each handlebar to that focal point to determine that the bars are even?

You are now running a RDL seat aren't you? Maybe put the OEM seat back on which lowers you some and see how it feels.

[pipelinepete]

To heck with this...I'm going darkside. The tire will be here Monday. Will let y'all know how I make out.

Peter

[David (N. Alabama)]

To heck with this...I'm going darkside. The tire will be here Monday. Will let y'all know how I make out.

Peter

You going to put a snow tire on there to extend your riding season Peter? Just kidding. Keep us informed on how that tire works out for you.

[HMB Don]

Chris

On the front forks, have you checked bushings, they could be worn. Next how much preload and sag on the front forks. When you retorqued the steering stem did you make sure that the bearings were seated and then retorqued.

Have you removed and reinstalled the frame rail on the right side. On my 02, two of the four bolts were loose.

The swing arm bearings, I remove the rear shocks and torque and retorque the preload on these bearings. Just moving the swingarm up and down while torqueing the bolts. I found that as the bearings seated the bolt would loosen.

How are the bushings on the rear shocks? Before putting on the old air shocks, change the oil.

Last tires; I used Avons for a long time until the E-3s came out. The E-3s are much more stable

Good Luck and see you in Kanab, UT

Don Medina
2012 Voyager 1700

[Chris near Kansas City]

Stuck at work today, so no working on the bike, but not sure I care to at this point, LOL.

David, I've noticed that my butt (oh boy, here we go...) must be skinnier or flatter on one side, LOL, than the other, or is it the other side is fatter? Anyway, the cruddy Corbin, I had to doctor, and the Russell even feels, just a hair to one side. The stock seats are so squishy, that you can't really tell. But, I need to ride the bike, on the left side of the road, to compensate for the crown and retest. I can lean a bit either way in the saddle and it doesn't affect the craziness going on under me though.

With regards to the bars and steering, if that front end isn't lined up straight, I'll be surprised. I had loosened everything up and tried twisting it all to one side and retightened, just to see if it changed the way it rode, and it didn't. I suppose I could do it again, both directions and retest. I will add, that the front end on the '01 does not feel as sturdy as the '90, but part of that could be the flat spots in the bearings on the '90. The outer bars are units that were on the '87 I had for a bit, so I can't vouch for their 100% straightness. But when I look down the middle of the forks, or off to both sides lining up the bumps on the calipers and the center of the bars by the clamps, I can't see them being any straighter. But no, they are not even according to the dimples. LH is even, dimple to dimple or one notch off, while the RH is 3 or 4 notches back. But that may be just me. I can ride the bike with one hand off (either hand) and it still rides funny. But to answer your question more directly, no, I haven't checked it with the focal point. Putting the stock seat on on my list as we'd like to have the Russell on the '90 for now.

[Chris near Kansas City]

On the front forks, have you checked bushings, they could be worn.

I have checked the front forks with enough force to almost take the bike off the center stand with no obvious movement. How probable would it be for the bushings to be worn at only 46,000 miles?

Next how much preload and sag on the front forks.

What do you mean by preload and sag?

When you retorqued the steering stem did you make sure that the bearings were seated and then retorqued.

Yes. Multiple times.

Have you removed and reinstalled the frame rail on the right side. On my 02, two of the four bolts were loose.

To my knowledge, that leg has not been off the bike. I was hoping to find a cure before tearing the front fairing off to check that end of the frame. The rear 2 are tight, but I have not removed them and retorqued.

The swing arm bearings, I remove the rear shocks and torque and retorque the preload on these bearings. Just moving the swingarm up and down while torqueing the bolts. I found that as the bearings seated the bolt would loosen.

When I torqued the swing arm bearings the first 3 times, I torqued them then rode the bike. Then came back and retorqued and retested. I then came back and checked the torque again. If the bearings haven't settled in after 46,000 miles and that retorque session, then there's no hope for them. When I had the swing arm off the bike, I torqued them just as you did after moving the arm up and down and then retorquing.

How are the bushings on the rear shocks? Before putting on the old air shocks, change the oil.

I will have to do that, because if I recall, I drained them after I took them off. The bushings in the Progressives are good since they are only 2 years old. The ones in the old air shocks should be fine also, but will of course check.

[Chris near Kansas City]

My '01 ran progressive rear shocks and Race tech springs and emulators and it was like riding on rails.

This one does too as long as the rails aren't straight, LOL.

[HMB Don]

Preload:
The measurement of the spring and spacers, past the circlip groove on the top of the front forks, to the top of the fork cap. No more then 30mm, with my race tech springs I only used 17mm.

Sag:
This is how much the weight of the Voyager and rider compress the front forks. Rule of thumb is 1 1/4" to 1 1/5". How to do it, best to have two helpers. With no one on the Voyager lift the front of the Voyager by the handlebars (two helpers), with the front suspenson fully extended take a measurement from the fork brace to the bottom of the triple clamp along one of the fork tubes, always use the same location to measure. Now have the helpers just balance the Voyager, take another measurement. Now with you on the Voyager, front brake applyed try compressing the front end two or three times. Now have the helpers, one to balance you, the other take the measurement. When your seated on the Voyager both of your feet have to be on the footpegs.

Take the first measurement and subtract the third measurement = Sag not enough sag take out some preload, too much sag add some preload. The second measurement is just for information to use some time, or just how much the weight of the Voyagers compresses (sags) the front fork springs.

I ran my 1200 closer to the 1 1/2" of sag for a softer ride. But I also had the Race Tech Emulaters installed.

Once you get the front set you also have to set the rear of the Voyager. I like the rear of the Voyager up just a bit, to help load the front end. This give a much more stable feel, with the stock shocks and oil changed. Use only 5 to 7 1/2 w fork oil, best is Amsoil but next is the Shawa (Honda) fork oil. With the full 235cc of oil in each shock. Rebound set at #3 and 40 to 42 lbs of air. For two up riding loaded with gear and trailer.

Too test the fork bushings you have to release the spring pressure, remove front wheel assembly, then while holding the fork tube with one hand try rocking the lower fork leg back and forth, any movement is to much!

Chris once you get it set up those Goldwings won't ride any better. About a year and a half ago I gave Trisha a ride on my Voyager 1200 set up like above. She had left her Goldwing at the dealership for Warrenty work, when we got home she asked if I could get her Goldwing to ride a smooth as the Voyager 1200.

Don Medina
2012 Voyager 1700

[Chris near Kansas City]

The springs are installed with no spacers, just like the '90. The sag would be an interesting thing to find out, to see if the '90 is down more than the '01. It would stand to reason that it would, since those springs have been in there for almost 10 years vs. the 3 on the '01.

The back end is up on the '01 due to the Progressives out back.

And yes, I know the wing won't ride much better than the XII. Except when you twist the throttle, or pull in on the brake lever, or go shopping for accessories, or....

[HMB Don]

Yes Goldwings are fast but I had my Voyager running so that it could stay with that 1800 cc. Carl Leo once told me about vacuum leaks, I though he was nuts; I checked and heck if I didn't have some I repaired all of the leaks, I used the stock Air Filter yes almost $40 but it flows more air then that dollar for dollor cheapo, I also use the stock fuel filter very costly, always keep a good battery, I use Iridum plugs. I would change plugs when ever the engine wouldn't start with a light touch of the starter button.

The last time I rode the Voyager really hard was last year with 158k on the odo it was the Grape Crusher Ride. The CBR1000, ZX10 pulled the 1200 no problem but the R6, CBR600 or ZX6 will it was well into the triple digit speeds before they could really motor the 1200. Brakes they suck big time, but change to the EBC Rotors and the HH pads. You'll be able to lock up the front brake with a passenger and loaded trailer. After 70k on the EBC Rotors using the HH pads the wear on the rotors wasn't any more then with the stock rotors and reg FA85 EBC pads.

Now I got to ride Trisha's Goldwing when it was new before it was a trike. When I got back on the Voyager 1200 it was a piece of ----, it broke my heart, so in 2007 I started my quest to inprove my 1200 execpt for the frame I got it as good or better the the 1800. One thing about the 1200 is I could get 24k on a rear tire, not on the Goldwing, and bias tires are cheap. The Goldwing is a wonderful motorcycle and yes you can buy anything you want for them.

I now ride the 1700 and it's another piece of ----, it's getting better, the brakes are better much better then the 1200 but I get them to fade with I go out and play hard. The front end is harsh over bumps and soft when riding fast, the same with the rear shocks, but the frame what a dream, the sound of the pipes man o man. What the 1700 needs is 100 to 110 hp stock and a 6 gallon fuel tank. I gave my 1200 to my son who was riding a Triumph 600 Daytona, he thinks that the frame flexes, but the 600 has only been riden once since he got the Voyager.

See you and Pam in Kanab, Pam might blow up the camera with all of the pictures she'll be taking.

Don Medina
Former 1200 Voyager Owner
2012 Voyager 1700

[Chris near Kansas City]

Hi.

Early Monday morning, I put the original air shocks back on the rear and took it for a spin. No change other than I really wanted my Progressives back on it. Hate the way it rides, just hate it, LOL.

After that run, I figured go big or go home. Since I was already home, I decided to go big. I swapped the driveshaft, swing arm, final drive, wheel and Elite 3 off the '90 onto the '01. And wouldn't you know it, ahem, yep. No change. Well, it was different, but the problem was still there. It got me to thinking though, or maybe more importantly, it eliminated the probability that my problem was up front instead of in the back. It had always frustrated me that I couldn't really tell which end was causing the problem. Well duh. Cause If I knew that, I'd be able to figure it out, right? Of course right. I had only recently started to wiggle the bars at speed for testing purposes and I felt it acted the same or intensified the funny business that I've been trying to eliminate. So, I've kind of been thinking, "front end, front end, front end, maybe the front end? maybe? Hmmmm...." Anyway, I rode it up to Rick's and back and thought about it some more.

If you put the cruise control on and lift your hands slightly off the bars does the bike tend to track to one side or the other consistantly or does it just cruise along.

David. Rick rode it and tried that and it veered off to the right. I haven't really tried that.....

I should have said, "I haven't really tried that a bunch and on purpose to mentally take notice of what happens and catalog the data for future discussions." So I did that on this run up to Rick's, mainly from when Rick rode it last summer/fall and because David asked. I hadn't really thought much about it. Pam sits towards the right side of the bike, the crown in the road naturally can tend to direct bikes/vehicles to the right, so it never really gave me much cause for concern regarding the bike running off to the right if I took my hands off the bars. Was telling this to a guy today that had stopped by to help me swap everything back onto the '90 that should be on the '90 as well as get most of the stuff back on the '01. I told him, that I just don't go around riding no-hands anymore. I'm definitely older, and hopefully wiser, LOL. I guess maybe that's why I wanted to swap all the back end stuff, cause I knew it probably wouldn't be the issue and therefore I could positively cross it off the list. That, and I'm tired of messing with the front end. Also, I wanted to double check how the '90 rode on our Tuesday ride. Just had to get it back together. Anyway, on the '01 ride to Rick's (heyyyyy, sounds like a new ride/rally/shindig, eh?) I checked it 10 or 12 times, and yes, it goes right off towards the right when you take your hands off the bars. I'm not really talking about a wander off towards the right, I mean ....like you're coming up to an exit and you'd better hustle before you miss it. So naturally I'm thinking the obvious, it must be in the front end. I had talked to Carl on Sunday and told me a couple things to look for. I had already thought about a game plan for the front end, if the back end swap didn't produce any results. If I don't see anything obvious in teardown, I'm planning on swapping the entire front end over between the 2 bikes, just like I did the back ends. I need to replace the steering bearings in the '90 anyway, so this will give me a chance to do that. If that doesn't fix it, then it has to be something in the frame that's tweaked.

On tonight's ride with Pam on the back of the '90, I took my hands off the bars. Even with her looking over my shoulder to the right, the '90 tracked straight down the road. I'm thinking the wiggle/wishy washy and the veering off to the right on the '01 have to be connected. It's gotta be in the steering or front frame section.

[Bruce in OK]

I've never been one to figure things like this out easily. But, I'm beginning to think frame. When you aquired the bike, did they show you the bikefax??

[David (N. Alabama)]

Chris, it looks like you are getting closer to a solution. I hope you find it after all this effort. I rode a wrecked bike for several years that had a visibly bent front fork. (I was young, poor, and ignorant of danger) The bike handled fine at any speed but you had to keep a little pressure on the left grip to keep it going where you wanted to go. If you relaxed that pressure it would immediately take a turn.

Makes me wonder if your forks are tweaked just a little, or the triple tree, Mmm.

Keep us posted.

[Chris near Kansas City]

I would have thought, or I should say, the thought behind rotating the upper fork tubes 180 degrees from their previous installation was in the attempt to change the way the bike handled if they were bent. The bike did not handle any different.

I pulled the forks off and the triple tree out tonight. Can't see any problems. Nothing looks bent that I can see. Bearing cups look like they're seated correctly.

[Bruce in OK]

I'm glad you enjoy twistin' wrenches!