Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

This is for general posts and questions concerning only the Voyager XII (1200cc, Four-cylinder) Years 1986 thru 2003.

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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by Rhinestone Kawboy »

This has been discussed at length on this forum and many others. Some will insist that you HAVE to run a motorcycle specific oil, or indeed risk clutch slippage. Others will say you should run dino oil as synthetics will cause clutch slippage. It goes on and on, and probably may never be agreed upon. With that said, I have always used ....... ok, here it comes.......... CAR :!! oil in various brands, mostly synthetic, and once or twice dino oil. I now have over 80,000 miles on my Voyager, and I have never had any clutch slippage using these oils. I have found that most that did have clutch slippage problems, were because of other causes not associated with the type of oil they run. Back in the 70's, it was a known that wet clutches with all metal plates were more susceptible to clutch slippage because of using additives like STP. At that time, it was said that clutches with both metal and fiber plates (like most wet clutches today) were not affected by these additives like the all metal clutches were. I do feel that synthetic is the way to go for my Voyager and at present, the Mobil 1 seems to work a little better than some other synthetics I used. Just my opinion. If you want to spend more, then use the motorcycle specific, for me, the synthetic car oils seem to work fine.

In case you want to know, one of the biggest problems with slipping clutches is either contaminated brake fluid in the system (root beer color instead of the almost clear color of good fluid), and the associated possible clogging of small orifices in the master cylinder. The other is usually the star shaped springs in the lock out clutches as described in the Carl Leo Tech Video on Voyager XII clutches (available in the AVA Gift Shop).
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by David (N. Alabama) »

Aufgeblassen wrote:During the short time of been at this site, I've determined that many of you apparently use Shell Rotella oil in your bikes.

I know I'm going to be bashed big time for saying this (i.e. a "newbie" telling veterans what to do), but most all bikes have "wet clutches", and they say you should not use standard car oils (whether dino or synthetic), because of the "friction modifiers", and this is why motorcycle specific oils exist.

I know, I know, the Voyager XII Manual does not mention specifically this question, but the bike indeed has a wet clutch.

It is probably true that you will get better MPG using standard automotive oil, but you risk clutch slippage (only under hard acceleration).
Welcome to the forum Aufgeblassen. I used to live in Alafaya Woods there in Oveido. Left there in '93 and I'm sure it is a lot different now.

With regard to your post, all my manuals state the oil should have certain API ratings and do not mention using motorcycle specific oil. So as long as the oil meet the ratings specified in the manual you should be good to go. It is the friction modifiers added in some oils that can cause clutch slippage. I do not believe that the Rotella has these friction modifiers. Rotella is also the oil of choice for the KLR650 engines.

I use Rotella in my KLR, but so far I continue to use Valvolene 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil in my other bikes.

I also believe that clutch slippage is more notible among folks that enjoy full throttle accelerations. :oh:
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by Mr Jensee »

Any motor oil that says ENERGY CONSERVING on the API circle is to be avoided on motorcycles with wet clutches. These are the friction modifier oils. This is whether synthetic or regular.
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by bikerking.biz »

Mr Jensee wrote:Any motor oil that says ENERGY CONSERVING on the API circle is to be avoided on motorcycles with wet clutches. These are the friction modifier oils. This is whether synthetic or regular.
I've used "Energy Conserving" car oil for years on my Voyager, and no clutch slippage. And I don't baby it either.
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by Mr Jensee »

There are a few special problem areas for motorcycle oil. Most motorcycles have wet clutches, which means the motor oil runs through the clutch. If the motor oil has too much molybdenum in it, there are fears that the clutch can start slipping. No one I know has ever actually had this happen to them, but the warnings are all over your owners' manual and the oil companies' web pages. On the back of all certified oil cans is a circular stamp with the certification. Avoid oils that say "energy conserving" in the bottom half of the donut. These oils contain friction modifier additives that could cause clutch slipping over time. Essentially all 0w-20, 5w-30 and 10w-30 oils are energy conserving, and should not be used in your motorcycle.

Most motorcycles run the engine oil through the transmission, and the transmission gears are very hard on the oil's VII package. This means that over a couple thousand miles, the oil's viscosity can break down. Standard car oils are only good for typically 1500 miles before they've lost about half of their viscosity. Remember, 10w-40 oils contain a lot of VIIs which tend to shear in your transmission, so I believe 10w-40 oils should be avoided. You can't use 10w-30 because of the friction modifiers. This doesn't leave much. Commercial 15w-40 oils are a good choice, because they have relatively few VIIs which are the more expensive shear-stable sort. Synthetics typically don't contain much of a VII package, so shear is not as big an issue with them.

Some people use their motorcycles only sporadically. This means the oil can all drain completely into the sump, leaving no protective film on the bearings. The first start after a long period of non-use can be particularly hard on an engine. Film strength is very important if you're a sporadic rider.

There are several key advantages to using Synthetic Oils:

Synthetic oils have a higher viscosity index than mineral base oils. Synthetics have better resistance to thinning at high temperatures and thickening at low temperatures. Since synthetics have little or no VIIs, synthetics last longer in service without radical changes in viscosity.

Synthetics have a much higher film strength than petroleum oils, so it takes a lot longer for the oil to drain completely off your bearings and into your sump.

Diester synthetics are polar molecules with solvent properties which dissolve residues and combustion byproducts.

Three synthetics stand out from the rest: Mobil Delvac 1, Mobil-1 SUV and Shell Rotella T Synthetic. These are C certified industrial oils meant to be purchased in 55 gallon drums and used by companies which run a lot of diesel engines. The Commercial oils, have more expensive additive packages which are meant to prolong engine life and oil life, as opposed to being cheap to buy at Pep Boys and helping the car companies meet their CAFE requirements. These oils meet all the automobile requirements through SJ, and also have extra additives to help pick up gunk in the engine, to keep the oil from becoming acidic, and to maintain the oil's viscosity over a long time. In fact, the manufacturers talk about their oil's viscosity resistance to shear forces - exactly what a motorcycle needs. Shell Rotella-T Synthetic is available at Wal-Mart for $13 / gallon, so I consider this the motor oil of choice. Delvac-1 is very hard to get in the west - there are only two places in all of California where you can buy it. Mobil-1 SUV is readily available everywhere for about $4.50 / quart. When used with the correct filters, these oils are certified for 50,000 mile oil change intervals, and are frequently used for 100,000 to 150,000 miles in diesel long-haul trucks. Now, before you get all excited about the possibilities, you must also keep in mind that the diesel engines don't run their oil through their transmission, and the large diesels all have two oil filters, one a normal paper filter, and the other a 1 or 2 micron filter that catches pretty much everything. We don't have these secondary ultra-fine oil filters on our bikes. Also, the large diesel engines hold eleven gallons of oil - a oil and filter change costs these guys $350 if they use synthetics, $150 if they don't.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
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Post by Voyager Ninja »

Motorcycles need “CRUSH” or sheer additives as the oil also lubes the transmission!

Car oils DO NOT have such sheer additives and ONLY provide friction inhibitors. :!!

A motorcycle specific oil is not about a wet clutch, it is about the grinding of the oil so as the molecules are not sheared apart by the trany.

If you use ANY car oil in a motorcycle transmission, you best be changing it out real often…….
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by bikerking.biz »

From what I read in this article, that is very much disputed.
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm

The conclusion of this article reads:

"Despite more than six months of research, reading all the claims and counter-claims printed by dozens of industry experts and lubrication experts, MCN cannot and does not purport to know all there is to know about the differences between automotive and motorcycle oils. However, what we do know is that we can find no substantive evidence that using a high-quality, name-brand automotive oil in an average street motorcycle is in any way harmful or less effective in providing proper lubrication and protection than using the more expensive, motorcycle-specific oils."
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by biggersm »

Carl Leo is probably the biggest fan of Rotella and I think one of his XIIs has over 300K on it. Having said that were using Mobile 1 synthetic because I feel that it is making the transmission run a little quieter.
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by Mr Jensee »

At least Larry got the message! :clap:
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by gregchristy »

Mobile 1. It's quiet, works good in Iowa, where we have huge temp swings. I'm a little lazy and I don't like to change oil after a month or so. Is there a good anti freeze besides Ma Kaw stuff? Can I use any anti freeze? PM me if you would, that way I'll get the message.
Thanks!
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by lockwoodjohn »

Hi Everyone,
After reading all the input on oils, I changed the oil in my Voyager for the first time I used
Rotella T Triple Protection, The auto parts store did not have the synthetic oil in stock when I
was there. The weight is 15w 40.From reading the posts here I put in 3 quarts & 22 oz.
(used wife's quart measuring cup,Wife not happy!) Did I use a good oil or should I have tried to find the Rotella synthetic oil.

Thank you for any input
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by debron »

John, you did good, assuming you remembered to drain BOTH drain plugs!
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by Scott-(Altoona, PA) »

:thmup: you did good with one exception, you shouldn't have told the wife what happened to her measuring cup! :oh: :gig:
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by lockwoodjohn »

Hi Everyone,
I did take out both drain plugs, In regards to the wife's measuring cup I would have gotten
away with using it but, She wondered why I was washing it out? Dumb me I told her the truth
O well live and learn I guess!!

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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by Gator Mike »

When my kids were young they swore their mother could read their minds so if that's true then you were probably smart to tell her because she would have known anyway :gig: .........Gator Mike
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by debron »

I bought my own cheap plastic measuring cup and keep it in the garage! :gig:
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by carl leo »

one gallon minus 10oz equals 3qts 22oz. easier to just pour off 10 oz than to try measuring from a full gallon.
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by glich54 »

True Confessions: I not only have used 10-40W or 20-50W car oil in in every bike I have owned (14 and counting) without noticable problems, I also use whatever oil is on sale :shock: :shock: :shock: ($3.50/qt is my limit)...However, in full disclosure I usually don't keep a bike that has more than 60k on it...and I change oil every 2-3K
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Re: Using Non-Motorcycle Specific Oils In Motorcycle Engines

Post by richardb, austin »

If we're back to fighting the oil wars, all must be well on the Voyager front. :thmup:
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