Switching to the DarkSide (failure)

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

When getting my Voyager XII inspected a few weeks ago I was advised that my tires were just at the state limits for safety. So I made the decision to follow through with plans on crossing over to the DarkSide! I ordered a tire for the front end (Dunlap Elite American) and picked up a NEXEN car tire (less than 200 miles on it) from Furchin who tried it but didn’t quite like the ride. No problem since I ride 2-up 80% of the time and pull a trailer a chunk of that, going to the darkside made sense. PLUS the added life of the tire made it even more enticing.

I talked to my “guy” who owns/runs Outsider, a local bike shop/recovery service and since my riding was such he didn’t see any issues either. He’s mounted CT’s on several bike wheels before so that wasn’t an issue. So they started, pulled the front wheel, removed the old rubber and installed the new. Cleaned the wide whites, replaced the drive unit (which recently went bad but thanks to Carl I had a rebuilt one) and reinstalled the front. Looks great! Now since I have a Marvellas hitch on the XII they decided to put it on a lift table with a dropout. So off came another bike from one of the 6 lifts and on went mine. I offered to separate the hitch and remove the rear fender but that table was easier they decided. So the wheel comes off, old rubber removed and it looks worse than ever, new CT on the wheel and air added. All but about 4 inches of bead set on the left side, add a little more air and pop it’s set. Open the clamps on the machine and flip the tire and holy crap that other side hasn’t seated yet. No problem just add some soapy spray and a little more air and nothing. Alright remove the valve stem guts and add lots of air, compressor is on and air line regulator set to 95# so no worries, “gearheadfla” I believe went as high as 100 to get his bead seated so I’m good. Air is going in and the bead starts slowly moving ever so slightly then pop. No I’m kidding there was no pop, it was a BANG! Hell if DC comics artists were anywhere close they would have plastered the walls with those silly clouds saying BANG, POP, POW! Four of us were in the garage bay when the tire blew, one was bent over working on another tire less than 4 feet from it when it went (I felt bad for him).
IT WAS LOUD!
Instantly one said "the bead blew off the rim on the bottom side", so the jaws came open and the tire flipped again. Well the bead came off the rim alright, it will never hold air again in its lifetime as we know it. Words just can’t do it justice, you have to look at the picture to believe it.

Will I ever cross over to the DarkSide?

Will the ringing in my ears ever stop?

Will the shop dog (2 year old dachshund) ever stop shaking?

Will the guys at the shop ever trust me again?

Stay tuned for the next exciting saga of “As a Voyager Lives On” or “CPR, Voyager Style!”



The above story is in the Sept-Oct Voyager Voice publication (and true)!

[Furchin]

Scott, sorry to hear about this disaster. The exact same thing happened to me the first time I mounted a car tire. Loud bang or pop isn't exactly the correct verbage for the sound, it's more like a gun shot. Any way the second tire mounting went pretty much the same way with almost all of the bead seating. The remaining part of the bead was seated by inflating to around 55lbs and sitting the car tire and rim in the direct sun light and waiting. It took around 7-8 minutes and then a slight pop, walla, bead seated. So I guess for now you are walking to work

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

No, I'm still riding (well not today due to snow and ice). They had a tire that fit with the correct ratings so I have a bike tire on the back still. I will eventually have a car tire on the back, I think what I'll do is try to buy an extra rear wheel and mount the tire myself. Like you using caution and being patient, very patient!!!

[gearheadfla]

NO, NOT 100LBS, I went to 55 and it popped, I would not go above 60 at all. I use a tire mounting paste, have had no problems on now 3 different rims, did my Nomad a couple weeks ago and it almost seated before any air was in, seated at about 20 lbs. I really think it's the paste I'm using.

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

I really think it's the paste I'm using.

Is it actual paste or KY? I know that one is readily available at most big box and chain drug stores, not sure if I've ever seen tire mounting paste on a shelve anywhere.
NAPA maybe?

[Mr Jensee]

Do none of you people see a potential safety issue using these tires? Sure you may get it on the bike but how can you ever know that one might fail like this while riding after you've put so much air into it to seat it? I know I'm paranoid but I'll stick to a motorcycle tire on a motorcycle.

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

The way I see it a tire is a tire; if it's meets the ratings and size required; it is what it is once the label is removed. My last (factory ordered w/tow package) full size pickup truck came with car tires on it (to improve the ride and reduce noise, which it did). Once they wore out (less than 25k miles) I replaced them with LT tires. Not what the factory recommended but hundreds of thousands of others have proved that it's safe and works.
I know it's not the same but it is the same difference. But like you insinuated it's what you're comfortable with.
Next time I will do it myself and I can guarantee that it won't be over inflated.

[Me Again]

Do none of you people see a potential safety issue using these tires? Sure you may get it on the bike but how can you ever know that one might fail like this while riding after you've put so much air into it to seat it? I know I'm paranoid but I'll stick to a motorcycle tire on a motorcycle.

To some extent ,I agree .
The catch is that going from an Elite III to a cheap (Nexen) ct is not much different than going from a 404 to an Elite III (or a II if you go back a few years)The 404 was a wobbly disaster .Many of those who try CT look for one with a fairly round profile ,so the handling becomes similar.
100 psi to mount would scare the devil out of me ,but I am still considering a CT on my 1300 if I can find one that fits.

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

Me Again - I was wrong when I said 100 psi. Gearheadfla corrected me and said he only went to 55 which isn't bad at all. Apparently I just need to take more control over certain situations!

[gearheadfla]

I really think it's the paste I'm using.

Is it actual paste or KY? I know that one is readily available at most big box and chain drug stores, not sure if I've ever seen tire mounting paste on a shelve anywhere.
NAPA maybe?

It is a tire mounting paste that I got from a tire supplier (I think), My buddy in Vero Beach did use KY and it worked,

As you can see it is a 7 lb bucket of it, lasts forever, I forgot where it came from but I will check into it tomorrow, may have been NAPA but I can't swear to it.

[gearheadfla]

Me Again - I was wrong when I said 100 psi. Gearheadfla corrected me and said he only went to 55 which isn't bad at all. Apparently I just need to take more control over certain situations!

And you DO HAVE to over inflate a car tire to mount it on a car rim too, and yes, car tires have blown up while being mounted on car rims, I know that for a fact, I did it once. I have seen 60lbs to set a car rim. When I changed out my front E-3 for a new one it took about 50 lb to set it too. BTW the tire that blew up in my face was a BF Goodrich Radial T/A, not a cheap tire.

[richardb, austin]

Are you sure you can't repair that CT with a hot patch and give it another try?

[Lucasind]

...just got my copy of voyager voice..... a couple of days after scott's post, about the darkside failure..... and see the post in it's entirety........am I reading this correctly ?? ... BTW.... love austin tex's reply..... "put a patch on it "

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

Tony, you are reading it correctly. I held off posting it for a while till the V.V. came out and put it up a few days after mine came.
As for the patch, I can't seem to find a double layered patch so I left it on the pile with others no longer suitable for road use.

[debron]

Here you go . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSmgEkbp5eM

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

Ron that stuffs AMAZING and RAPID. Wish I had it that day, I would be riding on a CT today that's to RapidFix but as Murphy's Law would have it the shop didn't have any on the shelf!
Darn my luck anyway.
It does look like interesting stuff, would be interesting to try out just to see if it is as wonderful as Mark says in the video.

[Bruce in OK]

That Rapid Fix might be just the ticket for repairing the plastics on my little 250 Nighthawk....
Thanks, Ron!

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

That Rapid Fix might be just the ticket for repairing the plastics on my little 250 Nighthawk....
Thanks, Ron!

Bruce, if you do try it out, please give us a review of the product & performance.

[cushman eagle]

The Rapid Fix system certainly looks interesting I might have to check that out

[gearheadfla]

Are you sure you can't repair that CT with a hot patch and give it another try?

Never patch or plug to side wall of ANY tire. the tread area go for it, that is another advantage of CT's, I carry a plug kit and fix-a-flat so if I run over a nail or screw I can fix it on the side of the road and go somewhere to get the air pressure back right and travel on instead of call a tow truck to take me to a MC shop to buy a tire because they will not patch one.