Wannder City

[Brealytren]

Good for you Beave! I hope you have better luck than I did. The E3s were a vast improvement on mine ....but the bike just still is not to my liking. In this part of WI we have a lot of what I would call rutted roads where the tire lanes are often depressed 1-2" below the center or edges of the Lane. The xii just doesn't like this causing it to hunt and wander. My Goldwing breezes through this with ease....just a difference in bikes I guess. I DO NOT find the Voyager any more nimble than the wing. The Wing most likely has more caster making it more stable but I think we're talking about things that only a factory test rider can discern. I' started riding in the dirt at age 10 and have had no less than 47 bikes in my lifetime and the xii is the biggest disappointment in terms of handling. In most other aspects .... it's a gem. No matter all my efforts....E3s, steering head and swing arm adjustments, tire pressure exploration, progressives front and rear....it's still a "wanderer".

If anyone is looking to buy an immaculate '91 xii (yeah I know ... The worst color) with 31k on the clock in need of NOTHING other than a rider that would love it...it's up for sale at $3,000. If you in the southwest WI area, come and check it out.

Glad you love yours, Beave!!

[Littlebeaver]

I read someone added a
super brace and cured the wander issues...the guy had tried everything too and was very happy in his findings.. Have you tried that, [superbrace]? I put several rolls of coins in the compartments to add a little weight to the front end, big change but I still have those shinkos on the front with no superbrace.. I imagine it will do right once I get the dunlops E3's on it, I have Spitfires on my 81 and I can go 85 to 90 in a straight line on a windy day no problem or wander....I Noticed the front end feels heavier than the Kawa...No forkbrace on it either....I am also going to experiment with weight in the center of the forks up high.. Just to satisfy myself, some of you will roll your eyes, but me, I try things.... ... think about it, if the front end is too light it's going to wander.. Perhaps the E3 are a little heavier a tire than others..

[Littlebeaver]

Ok, I was thinking about something and reading a bit, some of the super bikes [sport] get a wander and 9/10 times it's the steering stem's bearings and or race's worn, I'm sure everyone knows how to test it by feeling the side to side motion feel test for a dead spot after jacking up the front end,,,, well, maybe the bearings are worn but you can't tell by feel, many of them guys replaced the bearings and races with new and there bike felt like new again, cured.....Has anyone tried replacing everything? these bikes didn't feel like that or wander like that when it was new...Nobody would ever buy one if it did...

[the2knights]

I bought one new, it wondered the day I test rode it! Still liked it more for the over all package than bike I was riding at the time. I am on my 2nd xii, still make sure I do all the right things to limit that, but you will chase the problem a long time if you want to completely eliminate it!

[the2knights]

Do not mistake my last post as sounding like the bike is ill handling. That is a different issue. I think a well maintained xii still requires a lot of input depending on road conditions. Yes, it well be effected by road conditions, and seems to wonder around the pavement seems, ruts, etc... If that is the issue you, that is just because the xii is so sensitive. Now, if it is wallowing out of corners, getting that tank slapper shake going a little to easy, or just not tracking where you want it to go, then by all means start going thru the obvious stuff first. EKAP 1200 had reminded several of us to make sure the fender washers were showing proud of the fender. If the washer has worn down, you are not getting the rigidity you should have between the two forks

[voyager55]

Most who bought a super brace for the 1200 said it did little if anything to help wobble, ride etc etc. And told others to save their money

[doug of so fla]

The Wander & Wobble issue has been around for a long time and it can be very hard to find the reason, but just remember. Wander at speed can be steering bearing to tight. Wobble at deceleration can be steering bearing to loose. On both front & rear tires it is very important to check wheels by spinning them to find out if they are true or not, by putting a stationary object in front & side, right next to the tire, to see if they spin true. Tires not mounted properly will not work correctly, check the spacing of the line on the tire around the bead on the tire, should be right next to rim, Also condition of tires old hard tires that have cupped or wear unevenly will change geometrics of M/C. Also I have bought a NEW Dunlop tire that was out of true from the factory. I have had several Metzlers that have worn very uneven. Front shocks that are not set up right or worn out will give a M/C handling problems. Rear shocks & swing arm bearings & wheel bearings will also effect handling. Remember that ALL XII's on the road right now are not NEW!!!!XII's. And alot of new owner's do not know all the history of the M/C. A XII set up right will not wander or wobble. and will handle better than most m/c's of that size. Ride Safe

[grumpin]

I think doug of so fla is spot on. One thing I learned about this bike, is that it's not the big pig I think it is. I found I was fighting it too much, not "letting" the bike do what it wants, so to speak. My cornering at first was not smooth, I'd lean and she'd say oh yeah and lean quicker than I expected, resulting in rider induced wobble. Also when the state would seal cracks in the asphalt (snakes) and I rode on them soon after when it was warm, wow, my automatic seat belt engaged (sphincter muscle). I slowed down. Now I navigate them better with less fight. I'm not telling anybody how to ride (disclaimer), just my observations. This is a fast and nimble bike for it's "size"!

[ghostler]

When I got my bike they had worn out Bridgestones, front was badly cupped. Those tires felt very unsure-footed, seemed to lack traction in turns, was especially spooky in rain. New Pirelli MT66 Routes cured that. Now the bike has stick in turns, rode smoothly without pulling or tracking in highway grooves, became a completely different animal.
Now I'm a happy camper.

[Littlebeaver]

I got the bike almost straight now with Shinko's on the front and a Duro on the rear and on a rain grooved highway as well, I imagine it will ride straight as an arrow with the E3's on it that are coming...

[grumpin]

When I got my bike they had worn out Bridgestones, front was badly cupped. Those tires felt very unsure-footed, seemed to lack traction in turns, was especially spooky in rain. New Pirelli MT66 Routes cured that. Now the bike has stick in turns, rode smoothly without pulling or tracking in highway grooves, became a completely different animal.
Now I'm a happy camper.

I bought a 05 800A Vulcan brand new, did not like the factory Bridgestones. Put on the Pirelli MT66 as you did, also really changed things for the better. Littlebeaver, sounds like you will have a good riding machine!

[Littlebeaver]

I was insulted once by my mechanic friend, but in a good way, I am not a trained mechanic with a diploma but I have been working on motorbikes for a while, I think outside the box, I do things others haven't, I experiment a lot.... The Honda Engineers are good, very good, my 81 Interstate is the bomb man, the only issue I have with it is the gear ratio as it's gears are for the times, 55 mph was the speed limit back then so that's why they are high, almost 5k at 70mph, this is why I love this Kawasaki, 3k at 70 is far more relaxed= far better gas mileage...Now the insult was he called me a perfectionist... I removed and mounted the counter weight off the honda and put it in the front end of the Kawa's fork area [temporary like] just to see what it did, what it did was it stabilized the front end a lot, I feel the front end being more stable for sure, I felt the front end is too light, you guy's can do as you wish but I will customize another weight and its fasteners to fit, and keep it in place as I like the way the front end feels now far better...The bike rides far straighter now at 80 and wander is nearly gone, real nice at 70 I can't wait to see how it does with the new E3's... Read what the Honda Engineers wrote on it... I'm not too sure about the Kawasaki Engineers ...especially if it wanders new as stated.. I'm not trying to promote this idea but simply stating what Beave is going to do for his new to him Voyager.. The Bike is far more stable with the weight in place even in curves..

[JHD]

Ironic that they design something to improve the control of the bike but can't spell the word.

Where are you mounting this weight and how much does it weigh? Hard to believe that something that size would change the handling characteristics of the Voyager.

[Littlebeaver]

Right above where the brake lines fasten... 3#. Not asking anyone else to try this either, it's for me and mine, do as you please..... I thought the same thing on the spelling of Movement.. Whatever...

[triton28]

"Moment" is an engineering term for a type of fixed connection point.
Dave

[Littlebeaver]

Told yah I wasn't trained...lol,,, figures....Thanks for that...too funny...My E3's arrived today...Learned a new engineering term thanks..

[Lucasind]

....here I thought "control" was in controversy.

[ghostler]

"Moment" is an engineering term for a type of fixed connection point.
Dave

Here is a definition from MIT:

What is Moment? The Moment of a force is a measure of its tendency to cause a body to rotate about a specific point or axis. This is different from the tendency for a body to move, or translate, in the direction of the force. In order for a moment to develop, the force must act upon the body in such a manner that the body would begin to twist. This occurs every time a force is applied so that it does not pass through the centroid of the body. A moment is due to a force not having an equal and opposite force directly along it's line of action."

Apparently that 3 lb. (1.36 kg) weight works by counterbalancing the weight of the rear lower fork assembly including the tire, brake calipers and fender upon deceleration.

Here is a blog explaining low speed wobble issues on the Goldwing GL1100 that I found interesting. Counterweight issue is explained below but more in detail in the blog. Also it discusses other factors that can cause front end wobble.

http://www.randakksblog.com/low-speed-wobble/

All GL1100 Interstate and Aspencade models came with a 3 pound counterweight that acts as an electrical junction box as well as a dampener to prevent deceleration wobble. If the mounting hardware for that 3 pound counterweight is loose, if the 3 pound counterweight is not mounted to the fork pipes properly, or if it is removed from its mounting at the fork pipes, a very severe uncontrollable deceleration wobble can be aggravated. This problem does not apply to the naked GL1100 Gold Wings, but if the Hondaline fairing is added to a naked GL1100 Gold Wing, the kit came with the 3 pound counterweight. If the owner fails to install the 3 pound counterweight with the Hondaline fairing, a very severe uncontrollable deceleration wobble can be aggravated.

[Littlebeaver]

I love learning new stuff, Thank you so much for the education... I got my front tire mounted tonight,,, wife had me running all over the place tonight, Ok, so I am using Dyna Beads inside the tire, 2 ounces for the front and same on the rear, I could easily balance them and use weights as I have many times before but I really like the dyna beads, they work well on my Honda.. After I mount a tire, I examine the lines very near the rim, I felt that the tire didn't seat proper as one side the line didn't look proper so I put it on my balancing stand and placed a folding chair up to the tire about 1/16" from the tire, I gave it a spin to see if it had a small hump in it, it did... I thought it didn't seat proper so I deflated it broke the bead on that side, I carefully lubed the inner rim with my napa tire lube a little more, I say carefully because you don't want that dribbling down into the tire as the beads will clump up after installing, then refilled it with air, this time I heard that classic pop, put it back on my stand and gave it a spin, this time it was perfect, true as can be... I'm satisfied with it.. I highly recommend doing this if you don't... Oh and yes the direction is correct lol
It's like taking apart my Nomad again...I changed those tires out too... Boy someone scratched up this rim changing tires in the past.... I hate that...

[Littlebeaver]

I just got around to posting these photo's of the steering nut, see the Honda has a lock nut much like this for the swingarm but the openings are wider so I had a socket already custom made for that, I figured I would see if the diameter was the same it was so I just reduced the size of the prong thingy's and got it to fit the steering nut,, cool man...So I am posting the steering nut and the tools I used.. Just a little dusty under there.. doesn't have to be pretty to work properly...LOL A good torque wrench is needed when it's somewhere very important like the steering nut to be tightened...Swingarm ect.