R.P.M.'s

[Lucasind]

.....6.5% along with the tallest tire available would certainly be a great noticeable difference ! If you are willing to build this, swingarm thru tall tire (all the parts u listed) and install it on your 1300 for testing...... you must be suffering from the same sickness as ME .........tony

[trikebldr]

...... you must be suffering from the same sickness as ME .........tony

Yup! Fellow sufferer! What's more, I am collecting the parts to do this project! I have ordered the swing arm/drive shaft from an '84 ZN1300 (don't want to butcher my original!), the swing arm/drive shaft from a 1980 KZ1300, the final drive from a 1980 KZ1300, and a rear wheel (with descent tire, brake rotor and rubber dampers) from a 1980 KZ1300. The only thing I might still need is the axle for the KZ1300. Also not sure about the brake caliper. If my ZN's will slip over the rotor on the KZ wheel, then I can make up whatever mount I need.

Just looking at the pics of both swing arms, everything MIGHT slip right into place. They look almost identical! And, if I luck out and the splines on the inputs to the final drives of both bikes matches, then all I will have to do is make up the adapter to relocate the lower right shock mount. Wouldn't THAT be a kick? Just swap out the final drives (with the adapter) and rear wheels!

Stay tuned! This should get fun!

P.S.- When are you going to Denver?

[Lucasind]

Well,I'll be darn ! your jumpin into this project with both feet !
The rally is in june next summer .estes park co, .....just north of denver.
Well keep me posted with your progress please.
and good luck with those parts POSSIBLY interchanging, that WOULD be great !......tony

[trikebldr]

Well, Tony, all the parts are here! But,.....CRAP! Was hoping it might be a bit more of a bolt-in than this shows, but still not as bad as I had feared earlier. The sizes of the pressed-steel swing arm parts are close enough to make it pretty easy to mate up the pieces I need from each.

In the pic, the ZN1300 SA is on the left, and the KZ1300 SA is on the right. As you can see, the splined coupler on the KZ is much larger diameter than the ZN's. Also, the bolt patterns on the flanges are not the same, nor close enough to fudge a few thou'.

Sooooo,.....will cut both flanges off at about the red line in the pic, leaving a bit more on the KZ's for trimming to fit. Forget the driveshaft for now. Once the flange is welded back on to make the final drive axle hole line up with the other fork end, the wheel goes back on to determine the length of the axle spacer. Then the brake caliper will be fit using a new bracket and brace-bar. Yes, the ZN's caliper fits well over the KZ's rotor! Just not sure if the ZN's stock caliper mount will position it correctly over the KZ's rotor when all is said and done. We'll see.

When the final drive and wheel fit well, the right shock lower mount adapter will be made.

Once the final drive and wheel have been mated up to the ZN's swing arm, and it all fits well to the bike and shock, the driveshafts can be cut and slowly fitted for correct length, then welded and re-tempered. A bit of sandblasting and powdercoating, re-assembly and out for testing.

I will warn you, though, that the driveshafts are forgings, and as such I won't be able to regain 100% of their metalurgical properties (strength, toughness, hardness, etc.), so all-out drop-the-hammer drag racing and speed shifts won't be recommended at all. Full power once the clutch is engaged will be fine! Just no full power shock loads! Guess that means the kid won't get to ride it, huh?

Just for your general interest, to re-join the shafts I use a low-temp method of Mig welding. Some might call it stitch welding, but I just do spot, or very short bits of bead at a time, giving time in between for cooling. The ends are tapered to almost 1/4" first. Once all welding is done, the area is ground smooth and a perforated sleeve (slipped on before welding begins) is positioned over the welded area and welded in place, keeping it all cool as welding proceeds. This all happens in a welding lathe. Then it all goes to the foundry for slow re-tempering to get it back as close as possible to original hardness. That's all this simpleton can do!

I had a 1980 KZ rear wheel ordered, but they said they couldn't find it in their inventory! WHAT? I didn't like the looks of the rest of their wheels, so the search goes on for the wheel. BTW, they are 17" wheels. Might be a bit harder to find a larger tire to fit it. Got no other options using that 1980 KZ final drive. Drives and wheels are pretty much matched together by design. FWIW, I did see a guy who offered a rear hub for the KZ1300 that laces up a separate rim with wire spokes!!! Gotta be a modified stock wheel hub drilled for spokes.

[Lucasind]

......holy sheet !, I gotta take in all this ! thank you for the info and effort.

[trikebldr]

If this feels good to me on my bike, you might just be outta luck! He, he, he!

[lockwoodjohn]

Just wondering
Is it possible to have a machine shop make up some final drive
Gears for the 1300 drive aassemply.? Perhaps a shop that does cutter grind work.

[trikebldr]

I'm sure anything's possible, but at what cost? Helical-cut gears, especially ones that fit a specific case, would take a LOT of tooling and set up. To do just one, or even a handful, would cost more than the bike is worth. Even what I am doing would cost more than the bike is worth if done at a commercial shop, but as a serious hobbyist at such things, it's just a labor of love. More of a challenge.

[trikebldr]

Hey, Tony!

Was looking at some pics of some Voyager XII's on trike gear. I am aware of the outrigger add-ons that make them actually a four-wheeler, but what about the ones that convert the rear to two wheels? Made me wonder just how they tie into the driveline. What kind of diff. do they use, and more importantly, what ratios? What kind of hardware does it take to make the conversion?

Another thing that I noticed is their use of automotive wheels and tires, so tire sizes would be unlimited.

I am still proceeding with my conversion project to be able to keep the bike as a two-wheeler as well as keeping costs down for a higher ratio, but seeing those XII's with their trike conversions made me wonder how the conversion was made in the driveline.

Do you know of any shaft-drive trikes, or who makes those trike conversions for the XII?

[trikebldr]

Well, on Champion's website they have pdf downloads of their installation guides, and they show drawings of their conversion mechanics. You can get them in independent suspended type or solid axle version. The Ind. system looks like it has a Corvette/Jag-style center section, and the solid axle type appears to use a smaller-car rear axle housing. Both use a custom made driveshaft.

Bottom line is that the stock swing arm, final drive and drive shaft are discarded.

I'm gonna look into what the ratios are in several other shaft drive bikes. Almost any final drive could be grafted onto a Voyager's swing arm. Was thinking that if a Honda Gold Wing 1800's final drive had a significantly higher ratio that the whole assembly could be bought for almost pennies from Champion after they do a trike conversion.

[Lucasind]

Hey Bruce,

I was thinking about the same things as you just mentioned.
Trikes are one area that i have no experience with, rode a couple..... and I feel that leaning a bike into curves, is one of the joys of biking ......so until my knees are completely shot,there likely wont be a trike in my stable !

your other thought about acquiring used parts from trike conversion companies for some sort of
"hybrid" (Hondasaki) would be great.....but ,boy do I smell one heck of a time consuming endeavor there ! but it never hurts to kick around some ideas !..............tony

[trikebldr]

G'morning, Tony!

I guess if you're not into machining and fabricating this all sounds like too much work, but I love it!

I agree about not going to a trike conversion. I also like the "lean", but my hips and knees are beginning to require a sidecar.

But, as for more options in ratios, I just found out that the early, first generation gold wings had a 3.40 ratio, just like our 1300's. BUT, the newer 1800's have a 3.10. Remember that the KZ1300 that I am currently working with has a 3.18, so the later 1800 gold wing's would give you an even better ratio. Now, the best news, if you are so inclined, the 1200 and 1500 gold wings used a 2.833 ratio! Think you would want to go that high? What that means in rpm comparisons is that when you are now turning 3200rpm with the stock 3.40 rear end, you would be turning 2666rpm with the 2.83.

Whaddaya tink?

[Lucasind]

...My 1200 voyager is o.k. at 3200@70.....my 1300 is a bit over 4000@70..(and on trips we ride closer to 80 than 70)...if I could get that 1300 down to as you say ,about 2700@70, I would be VERY happy !...but as you said...in another post,
"at what cost" If your gonna try to make a Hondasaki final drive, using a 1500 GW pumpkin..... I'll be watchin and waitin to see the development of that ! I'm already impressed that your diving into the
KZ 1300 and ZN 1300 hybrid final drive...... doing these types of time consuming projects,are purely for the love of bikes, and perhaps a bit of chest thumping("look what I did")
cause these bikes that we ride have little re-sale value (as you know)
Did ya read my "winter project "thread ,in the "other brands" column ?....In parts and labor, I have 5 times into that project what I could ever sell it for ! but I did it anyway,for the love of bikes
Good luck with all that your doing on your end, and keep us posted with pictures cause it makes great reading ! .................................tony

[trikebldr]

It is for the love of bikes! Another reason is that we are far beyond ever recouping any investments in these 30+year old bikes, no matter how cheaply we can repair/improve anything. But, it's like a hot rod,.....you have to just decide that you will adapt whatever it takes to build it and keep it running. I'm doing research into electric water pumps to see what's out there so I can adapt one to replace the internal mechanical pump when they are no longer available, or repairable. I'm also working on a distributor to be driven off the end of a cam. I hate Jap double-ended ignition coils! They are a waste of energy trying to fire two plugs at once. And, as many of you have found out from experience, they tend to break down. I squeezed about 180hp out of my '76 Gold Wing engine by adding Weber carbs and a custom built distributor instead of those silly points-driven coils. Until I did that, the coils wouldn't let it rev much past about 6500rpm, but the distributor, running a Chevy coil, immediately opened it up for another 1500 rpm. (ever heard a 1000cc Gold Wing engine revving at 8000rpm through an open Kerker 4-into-1 header?) For those who look at playing with these bikes from a financial viewpoint, GIVE UP NOW! They are money pits! But, just like a nice, rusty old model-t, they offer many years more of hot-rodding fun!

BTW, anybody who has a 1300 that they want to junk out, I'll be glad to take it. I'll even come get it anywhere in the midwest!

Just a little bike eye candy, if you like hot rods! This is that 180hp '76 Honda Gold Wing. Ported, polished, cc'd heads, Norris cams, 11.2:1 pistons, custom manifolds under Weber 40 IDF carbs, Chevy/Fiat/Toyota ignition, Kerker headers. i still have that whole Weber induction system, including manifolds, carbs, and all linkages if any GW owners are interested!

[Lucasind]

Great post Bruce,I like what you did with the ol Wing ! was wondering why you removed the Weber induction system ? What happened to the rest of the engine/bike ? ...........tony

[Lucasind]

4 motorcycles for sale 1984 Kawasaki voyager $2500 obo, 1979 kz1300, 1995 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 not running, 1980 kz1300 b3 not running $500 each

Hey Bruce...I saw this add in the craigslist in Mansfield Oh.(ad currently running),the price seems right ! Alot of 1300 bikes /parts for no money. ...........................tony

[trikebldr]

You may remember my story about how my wife dragged me out of my death bed to go buy my 1300. Well, she never said what I had to do with my old '76 'Wing, so I kept it for about a year. A friend of mine always wanted it, but not in street fighter attire, so I stripped it back down and put it back to stock, except for the ported heads and distributor. He eventually replaced my distributor with the stock points and coils since he was a "gentler" rider. I had over 100,000 on it, then he did another 50,000+ miles before selling it again! Who knows, maybe it's still pulling a plow somewhere in northern Nebraska!

Tony, you are a master temptor! Would LOVE to pick up that KZ1300 for $500 to make a street fighter, but all my free cash (and more!) has gone into spares for my ZN1300. Maybe YOU should buy it to make a street fighter, then put the ZN back into luxury ultra touring form? Besides, I have enough projects for this winter already! BTW, whatever became of that nice, red Gold Wing you labored over for so long? A nice day-cruiser!

[Lucasind]

....Master tempter here ...... I contacted the guy asking him to email me some pictures of the (2)
kz 1300's....no reply as of yet....as far as what happened to the red wing ? it's still here in the stable , I try to take her out once a week.,



I custom fitted a kz 650 rear tail light on it after removing all the baggage.



The red one is a 83', and the black one is a 80'......How much are ya loving my custom travel trunk on the 80' ?
With the wings ,and the voyagers,that I already have.....(along with 8 others) I'm really not looking to get any more ( in 2014 ) as the ones I have are taking up my spare time to say the least !
anyway..... I'll let ya know what the (2) kz 1300's look like when I go get them........oops
I mean when he sends me the pictures !..........................tony

[trikebldr]

i sure do like your "84 Wing! Would be nice to see some nice bags and a trunk mounted correctly on the back to set the whole rig up for longer distances like a ZN1300. Would make a nice "spouse-scooter" for traveling. Good thing I didn't know about you before I bought my 1300, or I might have cheated you out of that '84!

[trikebldr]

I'm not commenting on that "travel trunk" on the '80 because I may have to remove my 1300's trunk to mount a small kennel to carry my little fur-girl! She is a service dog to me and goes everywhere I go, so until I get a sidecar mounted, I may have to cobble up a mount for a plastic kennel. It probably won't look even as "nice" as your "Knudsen property"!