Oil Cooling

[Corne]

Dear Members,

I have of course a Voyager XII, form 1993 and live in Costa Rica. As my father in law (84)
who was the first owner, crashed it, 3 years ago, we bought him a new one, and he still drives. I rebuilt the old one. As Costa Rica is realy tropical I would like to build an Oil cooler on my bike. Can any body give me advice, how where, and yes or no. Any comments are welcome. I will post some pictures later, as I build my Voyager from nothing after the crash.

Thank you so much

Corne M. Dolmans

[cushman eagle]

I question if the VXII needs an oil cooler.They seem to last plenty long with out.The head temperature of my Voyager is 150 degrees cooler than the head on my GS1100Gk was after a ride,although oil samples on the Suzuki showed it needed synthetic oil to avoid breaking down at 4000 mile oil changes.

[Corne]

Thank you for your, reply, its not to bad, I allways use motul 10-40W synthetic oil, and the bike runs great, but after driving over 200 miles non-stop in a temp over 100F You can feel everything gets very hot. I already installed a second fan in front of the water cooler, to have 2 fans running. The streets heet up here in the country for over 150F and the wind
is realy hot. Its not realy a necc i think, but I was just wondering if it would be possible.
I know that the new BMW use water Oil and air, so do all the rotax engines.
To drive in a tropical country it is different. My cars all have oil, water, coolers even the
gearbox and the hydraulic oil has a radiatior to keep cool, and all with fans.

[kjsett]

Here in Phoenix Arizona the streets can get very hot when waiting at lights (i have seen 140+ on top of the bike on my add on temp gauge). I do watch my '03's temp gauge on very warm days and especially when pulling my trailer.
Synthetic is the only way to go for oil in these temps, but i guess it could help longevity to cool it some more. I guess if Carl could way in on this it would be the most definitive.
My biggest concern of adding something would be the danger of damage. How would you hang it outside of the normal protection area without the risk of a rock or something. A car/truck has better protection because usually you mount an oil cooler up farther from the road surface and behind a grill.
I can't see where you can install one except in front of the radiator, right behind a moving wheel.
I would be very curious to see how you manage it and what the ongoing results/issues would be.
Just my humble opinion (JMHO).
Ken

Also: I have been thinking about riding down as far as Panama on my 2003 (pulling a trailer). We have friends in Belize and my wife knows people in Costa Rica. What is your opinion, if i may ask, of the road conditions and border crossing issues these days down your way? What time of year would be best for temperatures versus rainfall and road conditions.
Just got back from a trip to the Dominican Republic and saw the condition of their roads (you could bottom out in some of their potholes. It helps that most of their bikes are 175cc and smaller. Wish i had the camera ready when i saw two very large women on a moped going about their business.
Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts.

[Corne]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your reply, as i rebuilt the from scratch after my father in law crashed it, i left a lot of parts of, as i can not find any spars here in costa rica, so space for the cooler is no problem.
My biggest question is where to connect, without taking the presure away from vital parts.
There is a tube on the right side going in the oil pan next to the tube that feeds the cilinders with lubrication. Maybe i can cut that tube and route it in the cooler and back, but no body can confirm that, not even the manual.
The other option would be a SANDWICH connector in the oilfilter hole, but that i have to construct myself i suppose as i do not think it exist. Also i have to create then an other space for the fiter.
I hope that somebody has some ideas or experiance with this item.
An other interesting tool would be to know the exact oil flow within the engine.

Dear Ken, we drove with the voyager to mexico and back ofcourse, the roads are not so bad,
But of course i am used to bad roads, also in Africa before. As long as you do not drive in the dark it is not to bad. The borders are somtimes very interesting, and time consuming, peronally i think its funny and i take it as a pause to lunch drink and have a smoke.
If you go further south, panama is good, but then you have to take a ferry to colombia, and a multi purpese bike like a bmw gs or ktm or ducati would be easyer as there are many on paved roads.
I hereby would like to invite you if drive south, your most welcome.

Thanks for your reply

Corne

[kjsett]

Corne,
Thanks for the reply. Well, it will have to be the '03 Voyager at this time. I would love to have as a second bike one that could better do that trip (someday) as I am a fan of Ewan McGregor's "Long Way Down" and "Long Way Around" trips. I don't have corporate sponsors though (why they rode BMWs) Also my wife would be riding a '97 Kawasaki VN800a vulcan (chain drive-800cc). Both have relatively low ground clearance, although mine has benefited from replacing the OEM on the rear with HD Progressives (front to be done maybe later this year).
You didn't answer my question as to time of year best, but then as long as I am here in Phoenix at my current job summer is my only option (maybe December, but would require some overcoming issues).
This year my trip will be back up to the Pacific NW as my daughter is having her second son (16 years apart) in July. With the rally in Estes Park Colorado and required meetings in June, not sure when I could come down this year at all (we run a 9 month Bible school, Sept to May).
Thanks for the invite though, and i hope to take you up on it in the hopefully near future (just no idea when).

[SgtSlag]

I installed an oil cooler on my 1979 Honda CB750K, with a sandwich adapter, which converted it to a spin-on oil filter. I mounted the radiator (OEM from a CB900) to the frame, behind the front wheel. It received plenty of cooling air flow. I also had an oil temperature gauge installed, which showed the oil temperature dropped from 250 F, without the cooler (air cooled only, from the factory), to a consistent 210 F, with the cooler. Tested it riding two up, with luggage, at 55 MPH, riding for three hours straight. From my research on oil temperatures, dropping the oil temperature from 250 F to 210 F, the engine's life expectancy doubled. Water cooling does much the same, under normal conditions; under extreme conditions such as you are describing, an oil cooler on a water-cooled bike, makes sense, as long as the oil never cools below 180 F, minimum operating temperature for detergent oils to suspend dirt for the filters to capture.

There are some things to check, before pushing ahead with an oil cooler: what is the maximum oil pressure the pump will generate (higher is better, as higher pressures, above 30 PSI, will push the oil easily through the cooling system)? Make sure to use proper clamps, T-clamps, to seal against the pressure, avoiding leaks. As to capacity, the cooler will increase the volume space for oil, but I would not add much extra oil, as it is easy to put too much into the system. The cooling system needs to be inline, to guarantee all of the oil is pumped through the cooler, to maximize cooling. An automatic oil thermostat is also recommended, to allow the oil to warm up quicker.

The oil filter is the best location for the cooler interface. It may be best to relocate the filter. There is not enough room to put a sandwich adapter in the filter location, so an adapter which re-routes the oil to an external filter, along with the cooler circuit, is likely best. Not easy, but likely best. Check the OEM Service Manual for an oil flow diagram. I found one for my Honda, but I don't remember if it was the OEM, or a Clymer manual. The Voyager only has the OEM manual, no Clymer, no Haynes manuals. Cheers!

[Wahrsuul]

The Kawi ZG1000 Concours uses both a radiator and an oil cooler. The oil cooler is located just below the radiator. Might be a source of parts/connection?

[Mr Jensee]

The old Honda CB750 (1993-2001) used a small oil cooler that mounted just under the forward end of the tank. It could probably be mounted easily forward of the radiator on the Voyager.

[kjsett]

This post theme got me thinking, should/could a skid plate be fabricated for the 1200 Voyager. If I do make a trip into uncharted waters (south to Panama) would such a thing help protect the undercarriage and could a simple one be made by one without more than normal tools?
I know from experience and other posts that the underside is susceptible to damage from road debris and steep speed-bumps (something hit and cracked my oil pan last September). This post of adapting into the oil filter a cooling line (would be nice to convert to a spin on in the process) might actually expose even lower parts. I will look at the possibilities for my self when installing a new manifold coolant pipe later this week.
Just thinkin,
Ken

[Corne]

Dear Friends, thank you for so much reply,

First Ken, sorry that I fergot to tell you in which time it is best to drive through central America. The best time is from December till April. That is the so called dry period. All the
other month you can only drive in the morning. The afternoons are allmost surely wet.
And wet means a tropical rain. You can not compair that with anything in North America.
It rains for a short period, but so hard........
Its not pleasant, and can be dangerous as well, as the white lines are not always visible, and the side of the road is not very good to define. Getting at the side will for sure course an
accident.
We did some trips in the rainy period, we start around 6am and drive till 12. Then look for a a nice place, and wait for the next morning.
To drive futher south after Panama, is impossible. You have to cross the so called Darien Gap. Its an area without roads and only jongle and swamps. Different gangs have there
powers in these areas. The only way to cross is by ferry and they are not always available.

Hope to have your questions answered Ken.
Thank you so much

[Corne]

Sorry Ken,

See your have posted an other post.

Why do they use a multi purpose bike like a BMW GS1200 or multistrada Ducati, or an Honda or suzuki, iT dusnt matter what brand, its about the use. Almost al roads in the south are NOT paved. You realy have to drive houdreds of miles without roads, and cross rivers.
Its a realy adventure. And believe me the Voyager is Not suitable for these trips. Neither is
a Harley of any other Tour bike. You need a lighter off road or multi purpuse bike.

regards Corne

[Corne]

Dear SgtSlag, and Wahrsuul and Mr Jansee,

Thanks for your reply.
My biggist concern is NOT where to place the radiatior for the oil cooling, that is simple.
I have place enough and propably under the water cooler is the best place. I can make a
nice protection plate under and in front.
My biggest concern is where I can take the oil OUT and put the oil Back into the engine.
Thanks Mr Jansee for the manual, but as you can see there is NO real info on this subject.
The little oil pipe that comes out of the right side of the oil pan and returns ( or visa versa,
i can not even find that in the manual ) under the oil pan near to the oil pipe that feeds the
cilinders of oil.
That would be a possibility if i knew which way the oil would flow in there and if I have anough PSI to bring it to the cooler and back.
The other possibility would be a sandwich connector in the oil filter hole. Mr Wahrsuul is
right. The ZG1000 has an oil cooling system, I am trying to find out how this one is connected to the system, and if or how this would be usable for the Voyager.
To make a sandwich connector with the double connector would be possible, but I would
have to ask some friends with presision shop and a lathe to design a model and make it.
The test would result in a good functioning oil cooler or..... a broken engine.........
Dear SgtSlag, i can not find yet a suitable oil flow chart for this engine, maybe i should
look into an old Hyunday 1200 model engine that was made by Misubishi, which is simular
to the Kawasaki 1200 engine as we have on our Voyager. I know that some of them
where used for racing, and had an oilcooler system.
I still hope that somebody can give me the right info, so that I can make this work.
Thank you so much my dear friends for all you comments.
Its nice to see if I can Improve my old Voyager that we use daily and tour around 20000 miles per year.

Regards

Corne

[SgtSlag]

As someone mentioned earlier in this topic, Carl Leo is the best person to ask. He is a retired Kawasaki Mechanic, with extraoridinary experience, knowledge, and expertise on the Voyager XII bike. His contact information is at the top of nearly every page on this site. You can e-mail him, which is likely the easiest method to contact him.

What about using a larger water radiator? If you could increase the size of the radiator for the water cooling system, you could shed more heat from that cooling system, which might be enough to keep the engine running cooler in the extreme conditions. It might be easier, and safer, than attempting to tap into the oil circuit. Best of luck. Cheers!

[Corne]

Thanks, sgtslag,

I found a sandwich from the 1000 but it dusnt fit, and to make one, is a not easy.
I had an old cooler (broken), and have it rebuild but twice as thick.
I fits very well, and next weekend i will drive to the northern parts of the country.
Lets hope this will work.

Thanks

Corne

[Corne]

Dear friends,

First thank you so much for all your good tips, I still want to tell you that i solved the
problem. A radiator guy here in Costa Rica was able to make me a brand new
radiator, same shape as the original, but twice the thickness. The radiotor has the
double capacity as the original one. I changed the thermostat to 60 degree celsius
one and now the bike nicely stays around 70 degree celcius and the oil around 90 degree celcius even if I drive up to the vulcano up to 4000 meters, or 12000 feet.
I still have the fan behind it with the thermostat switch, but till now it never switched
on. I made a test twice, because i thought its not working but if I ad hot water in
the radiator it starts.
Oil cooling is too complicated on this engine, I made all the measurements in the
oil filter space, and will try to make a electric sandwich valve together with a friend
of mine who has a precision shop and the right tools.
If we succeed I will tell you guys. For now, I solved my problem and oil and engine
stay nicely cool. Many regards Corne

[cushman eagle]

That oil temperature is very good,I certainly would not worry about that.