mouse urine seized plugs 2,3 in the head

[forestfarm]

Hi,
I am a new voyager owner going thru the usually neglected maintenance that the previous owner left for me.46 k miles I thought it would be good time to change the plugs.I found hardened mouse poo in all four spark plug wells.I did the 1,4 first,they were pretty tough to get out.I used penetrating oil and compressed air to blow out it out as clean as possible.Now I have gotten to # 3 plug.It is seized tighter than a lug nut on a dump truck.I have it soaked now with penetrating oil.I will leave it sit overnight.I put a breaker bar on it with a short length of pipe to try to break it free but I certainly don't want to rip the threads right out of the head.The two outer plugs looked pretty nice.Im thinking if I cant get them loose with reasonable force tomorrow then maybe it would be prudent to just leave them alone.Any opinions would me most appreciated.Thanks in advance.

[triton28]

If all else fails, careful use of an impact gun may help to loosen the bond between the plug steel threads and the aluminium cylinder head. If you do try this, test the impact of the hits on a large frame/rear wheel bolt/nut first to make sure it isn't set too hard.
You can always adjust to a harder hit as needed. Low torque but steady impacting is what is needed. Do not use wheel nut/high torque settings, much too hard and liable to spin the threads!
Once the plug starts to turn by about 1/4 turn, stop with the gun and preferably use non air sockets and penetrating fluid. Turn the plug in and out and in and out, to work the fluid down the threads while gradually unwinding the plug out of the head.
This is a risky maneuver and one to be carefully considered before attempting.
I am only suggesting this as a last ditch effort and claim no responsibility for the results, although it has worked for me in the past.
Good luck,
Dave

[forestfarm]

I have decided that the risks outweigh the rewards.The two outer plugs looked fine so I can reasonably expect the the two inners will be in the same condition.I worked on it for a couple of hours today.I was finally able to break one loose and turn it no more than five degrees in either direction,working it back and forth by hand with a 3/8 breaker bar and extension,alternately spraying and soaking it with PB Blaster,a local penetrating oil.I have let it sit for the past 5 hours soaked with penetrating oil and it is still tight as a bugger.I just tightened it back up and decidsed to let it be.The bike runs fine as it is.If I break the insulator trying to free it up then I am totally screwed,not to mention wringing out the threads along with the plug.I am sure my 1/2 impact gun would love the challenge but I am certain it would put my Voyager out of commission whenit rips the threads out along with the plug.My hatred of mice only increases with age.

[jre258 in SoDak]

Be sure to use anti-seize compound on the other plugs when you replace them. Sounds like someone forgot to do that when they installed the old plugs.
Jim

[voyager55]

Be careful, NGK says not to use anti seize on plugs

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/dyk_5points.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lucasind]

was wondering if "forestfarm's" plugs that he is trying to remove....ARE ....in fact NGK plugs ?

[forestfarm]

yes they are the correct ngk plugs.I stopped trying to remove the center plugs before i created a real problem.I will deal with them over the winter

[cushman eagle]

Be careful, NGK says not to use anti seize on plugs

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/dyk_5points.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am surprised to see that,as I have used anti seize an all the spark plugs on all the engines I have worked on for 30-40 years.I have never experienced a problem removing them afterward.That includes the NGK's in my GS Suzukis.

[cushman eagle]

Be careful, NGK says not to use anti seize on plugs

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/dyk_5points.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am surprised to see that,as I have used anti seize an all the spark plugs on all the engines I have worked on for 30-40 years.I have never experienced a problem removing them afterward.That includes the NGK's in my GS Suzukis.

I meant all the spark ignition engines I worked on ,not many diesels have spark plugs.

[sheiserman]

Be careful, NGK says not to use anti seize on plugs

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/dyk_5points.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am surprised to see that,as I have used anti seize an all the spark plugs on all the engines I have worked on for 30-40 years.I have never experienced a problem removing them afterward.That includes the NGK's in my GS Suzukis.

It may be semantics, but that link doesn't say not to use anti-seize. They did touch on what anti-seize does to torque values though. If anti-seize causes over torquing, then guns really do kill people all by themselves.

I'll bet when you applied anti-seize to a plug (or anything else) it didn't look like you dunked the plug into the jar of anti-seize. That is how the picture portrays it.

This topic gets even more heated on Ford forums where spark plugs used to be an issue. I wouldn't consider not using anti-seize on a spark plug.

[Lucasind]

...So much for the success of "Trivalent Plating "......in your case forestfarm
or.... did that"mouse urine" really do you in ?.......who knows , but in this case I think you made the correct call by doing NOTHING at this point ! if the bike rides and runs fine at this point ....get out there and ride it ! Remember that an IC engine needs only a few requirements met to run, compression.timed spark,and fuel/air,to run ....the rest it can do on it's own ! Then there is also the question of how many miles have you rode consistently ,year after year ? 1000 ......5000....?A spark plug in a "normal engine" can last for many years ! so wait till winter to proceed with plug removal.or.....address the problem ,when there IS a problem.?

[forestfarm]

The area around each plug was filled up with mouse poop.It took quite a bit of high pressure air and poking with an awl to free it up to where i could get a socket in there.The previous owner kept the bike in an unheated shed and had mentioned to me that he had had mice problem.The bike has 46000 miles,15000 of which the previous owner put on in the last 19 years of ownership.I rode it home from his place in Vermont to my home in NH.It seemed to run really well,lots of power and very smooth,although the idle was erratic,the rpms would stay up for a while after letting up on the throttle.The cables arent binding at all.The erratic rpm issue is something i need to address now.This is my first bike with CV carbs.We rode the bike to the seacoast yesterday and on the trip I began to intermittently lose a cylinder then regain it.It seems like one of the cylinders is being starved for fuel.It would begin to stumble then clean right up on its own.It was a stressful ride home not knowing if we would make it back under our own power.I changed the fuel filter thinking it would help with the problem but had no effect.I originally planned on going right thru the bike to bring the maintenance up to standard,I started with the spark plug change but then encountered the frozen plugs.Now I am faced with rebuilding the carbs.The 10%Ethanol gasoline probably has affected the carb diaphrams.I can let of the throttle between shifts but the rpms stay up high for a few seconds.Sometimes i come to a stop and the bike is hovering around 2500-3000 rpms before settling down to 800 rpm.Iwould appreciate any feedback regarding the rpms staying up with the throttle closed.I physically checked the operation of both cables,I checked for air leaks at the intake boots,found all the clamps relatively loose.tightened them all.Enough for now.Any tips on my symtoms would be appreciated.Thanks

[Tonyvdb]

regarding the intermittent cutting in and out on one of the cylinders you may have damaged the plug wire when you pulled it off to try and remove the spark plug. those old wires are known to break in the cap when removed if not done very carefully.

The high idle is normal after stopping at a light (at least on mine it is) it always goes back down to around 600rpm slowly however its not at around 2500rpm for me usually sits at 1500 and slowly (10seconds or so) drops down. Have you adjusted the idle knob? its located on the left side near the carbs (has a small black knob) its very touchy so you dont need to turn much.

[forestfarm]

I did have the plug wire come apart on #3 plug.I made sure it was put back together tightly.I checked it while idling with the battery tray out(connected with jumper cables to the battery on the floor]I fiddled with the plug wires,I couldnt get it to miss,checked it in the dark for any possible arcing to ground.Basically,I couldnt get it to lose a cylinder while messing around with the plug wires.I even pulled the wire apart from the boot and it still ran fine.As far as the idle,I have adjusted it repeatedly.I think I need to sort out the carbs to address the condition where it stays up at rpm after the throttle is closed.I can pull up to a stoplight and its up 2500-3000 rpms for a few seconds before idling down.When i shift gears it maintains rpms when i let off throttle and pull in the clutch.I have no prior experience with these diaphram carbs.My Harley is injected and all prior bikes had an actual cable attached to a slide.Open and closed.This throttle delay has me kind of rattled.Im sure its just a matter of needing some maintenance.I will know better after i go thru the carbs.I havent decided where/which kits to buy for the carbs.I certainly dont want to risk buying "economy parts" for the carbs.I dont want the bowls leaking.

[Gator Mike]

try carb synching. Mine had erratic idle until I sync'd the carbs. Works great now..........Gator Mike

[forestfarm]

I did buy the motion pro synch tool and did them Sunday.They werent too far off.I will buy the K&L Carb kits from amazon for $22 each.I will post my findings once i get them off the bike and opened up.I ordered a small can of Kano Kroil.Its a very good penetrating oil that i used to use 40 years ago when i was an apprentice in a machine shop.We will see if it loosens up my seized plugs while i am in there removing the carbs.Thanks for your support.

[chevyman1]

I did have the plug wire come apart on #3 plug.I made sure it was put back together tightly.I checked it while idling with the battery tray out(connected with jumper cables to the battery on the floor]I fiddled with the plug wires,I couldnt get it to miss,checked it in the dark for any possible arcing to ground.Basically,I couldnt get it to lose a cylinder while messing around with the plug wires.I even pulled the wire apart from the boot and it still ran fine.As far as the idle,I have adjusted it repeatedly.I think I need to sort out the carbs to address the condition where it stays up at rpm after the throttle is closed.I can pull up to a stoplight and its up 2500-3000 rpms for a few seconds before idling down.When i shift gears it maintains rpms when i let off throttle and pull in the clutch.I have no prior experience with these diaphram carbs.My Harley is injected and all prior bikes had an actual cable attached to a slide.Open and closed.This throttle delay has me kind of rattled.Im sure its just a matter of needing some maintenance.I will know better after i go thru the carbs.I havent decided where/which kits to buy for the carbs.I certainly dont want to risk buying "economy parts" for the carbs.I dont want the bowls leaking.

this could be that your throttle cables are out of adjustment, if they are to tight the throttle will stick

[forestfarm]

i checked the cables first.I am leaning towards the igniter box now.When i disconnect the igniter box vacuum hose the bike idles down immediately but when i test ride it the condition that i thought was a bad carb is present all the time.This leads me to believe my issue could be with the igniter box or the vacuum supply to it.I will start another thread inquiring about the igniter box and its vacuum supply.

[forestfarm]

i checked the cables first.I am leaning towards the igniter box now.When i disconnect the igniter box vacuum hose the bike idles down immediately but when i test ride it the condition that i thought was a bad carb is present all the time.This leads me to believe my issue could be with the igniter box or the vacuum supply to it.I will start another thread inquiring about the igniter box and its vacuum supply.

[chevyman1]

if it idles down when you disconnect the hose that means it's removing timing advance, and that whats slowing the engine down.
make sure the carbs are closing all the way, I had the same problem and it was because the pull cable was to tight and it didn't appear to be when I checked it.
loosen the pull cable all the way just to make sure that not the problem you can readjust it later.
also check that each carb is closing, you can see that where they connect together.
make sure the little spring is in there, 3 places.