Transmission backlash problems.

[Irish59]

Hi everybody,a new voyager with his first post.My ride is a 1999 xii and i have some transmission problems.I have checked everything in the drive train from the rear pinion up to the front pinion and everything is nice and snug.I can put the trans in first gear on its center stand and can rotate the rear wheel 1/3 to 1/2 rotation before it stops.There is a lot of backlash when i change gears and i'm not sure what it could be without breaking open the trans mission. what ever it is ,it is connected to the front pinion shaft in the trans.In checking out the parts breakdown for that shaft there is 2 parts that maybe have something to do with it,they are a cam damper and receiver .There is no history on this bike with any Kawasaki dealer and the person i bought it from only had it for a year and only put a thousand miles on it.I am knowledgeable on how transmissions work but am not familier with motorcycle transmissions.Any advise and info would be of great help.I am afraid to take it on a long trip and have something break inside..Thanks in advance guys..Irish59.

[passin thru]

I'm rather new with this myself, but I'd say that 1/3 wheel rotation is about what mine (93) has. I'm chalking it up to a lot of accumulated backlash in the drive-train. I haven't noticed any "silver" when I change the oil, so I'm thinking it's normal.

[Mr Jensee]

I would put in a email to Carl Leo. He is a retired Kawasaki mechanic who has extensive knowledge of the 1200 Voyager. You can reach him at voyagerparts@bellsouth.net. Leave an number and a time along with your problem and he will call you back.

[Irish59]

unless you time your gear changes perfectly you get a clunking sound each time..i've got a few friends who have shaft drive bikes and they dont have this kind of play in them and they are japanese bikes too.Thanks for the input guys,but i think there really is a problem here.I cant see a motorcycle company [ especially from japan ] making a touring bike with such a sloppy drive train.I will send Carl Leo an email about it and see what he has to say..Irish59.

[cushman eagle]

I checked my lash today,as I was getting ready to take a ride.In 1st gear sitting on the seat,I was able to rock my '99 4 inchs forward and backward until the lash took up each way.From what you say,you do have too much lash.You have apparently found it has to be in the transmission.There is not anyplace behind the trans that could be that loose,and still ride the bike.

[carl leo]

i do not believe it is in the transmission, there is 7 connections between the front bevel drive and the rear wheel any one or a combination could cause the issue you describe. how many miles does this machine have? 4 inches back and forth measured at the valve stem is common, any more than that and i would have to start looking for a fault....carl

[trikebldr]

To expand just a bit on what Carl said, all of those connections are smaller diameter joints, so a tiny gap at any one will translate to a lot of movement at the wheel. And then add up any play at all in each of the seven and it all adds up to a massive amount of slop at the wheel.
Also, many bikes have split bellows covers between the engine and swing arm. This can allow enough water to enter to slowly destroy all of those connections with rust. Once the water gets in it has no way out!! The worst I've seen is one Voyager 1300 I was thinking of buying that had the splines on the rear coupling to the final drive pinion completely sheered away from rust. The Voyager XIIs are almost exactly the same driveshaft design as the 1300s.
Honda uses the final drive oil to lube their splined driveshaft rear couplings, so it gets constant lube, but most other makes require a periodic greasing of the splines on these connections. I would guess that most owners hardly ever pay attention to these couplings by way of cleaning and greasing!

[passin thru]

Well, I'm all embarrassed and have egg all over my face. A few days after stating that my 93 had about a third of wheel rotation backlash I decided to double check. I found that it is actually closer to the 4 inches others have stated. I must have been overly tired that evening. As I said, embarrassed.

Now that that's out of the way, I think we are all overlooking the main source of gear-train backlash. Remember that the transmission gears that aren't splined to their shaft engage the gears that are with lugs (or dogs) mating up with lugs (or slots as the case may be) on the adjacent gear. There is a good amount of clearance between mating lugs without which it would be difficult to fully engage the gear on the next shift. Without going out to the garage and actually measuring I hesitate to guess how much clearance there is (see opening statement), but it is a fair amount. I think I could pinch my little finger in there pretty good. The book says that the transmission gears should have between .001 and .007 thousands (rounded conversion) backlash. I would assume that holds for the bevel gears as well. All told, gear lash won't amount to much of the total.

I can say all of this with some certainty because I currently have my engine out and apart to replace the gear-sets. See my post on 5th gear whine, Howl, SCREAMING!!! I hope to have more to say on that topic later.

[Jim Chelly]

While on the subject of back lash.
I was trying to quiet my tranny whine/howl by adjusting the gear lash as shown in the tech area. I found the fwd adjuster did nothing when I turned it. The aft adjuster would change the sound just as described. Is this something I need to be worried about?

[Irish59]

when i changed my timing chain tensioner that got rid of 98% of the drive line slop..after riding it last weekend i think i can adjust it some more..
I have a lot of gear whining noise in 2nd and 5th gears,especially when the gear in under a load..In 5th gear when you are cruising at 70mph with no load on the tranny it is nice and quiet..something i have to look into in the future..Irish59..

[ekap1200]

when i changed my timing chain tensioner that got rid of 98% of the drive line slop..after riding it last weekend i think i can adjust it some more..
I have a lot of gear whining noise in 2nd and 5th gears,especially when the gear in under a load..In 5th gear when you are cruising at 70mph with no load on the tranny it is nice and quiet..something i have to look into in the future..Irish59..

Sorry but I am just not seeing that. cam chain is NOT part of any driven part to the drive line or trans

[Irish59]

you have to look at the bigger picture....The transmission is tied to the crankshaft via gears and the crankshaft and cams are tied together with a timing chain and tensioner..lets assume your timing chain is loose when you are up shifting the transmission , you should be able to shift gears without much slop because the crankshaft is keeping everything under load,but once you take the load away the loose timing chain is going to show its ugly head in the form of the cams being out of time with the crankshaft and transmission so the bike is going to start bucking and jerking until you put a load on the crank by getting down on the throttle and giving her the gas...stick shift cars will do the same thing if the timing chain or belt is too loose..hope this helps...Irish59..( over 30 years as a mechanic )