Pioneer TS-G1045R as Replacement Speaker

[ghostler]

So far the recommended replacement XII speaker is the tried and true Pioneer TS-A1072R 4-Inch 3-Way 150-Watt Speakers. I'm a glutton for punishment, so I figured I'd see if there might be a suitable replacement out there at less cost. Lo and behold, I spotted the Pioneer TS-G1045R biaxial speakers, cost $27 a pair shipping included.

https://smile.amazon.com/Pioneer-TS-G10 ... 00SAY7UTM/

Specs state,

• 210 Watts Max Power (30 Watts Nominal)
• Injected Molded Polypropylene (IMPP) with MICA Cone Woofer
• 1-3/16" Piezoelectric Tweeter
• Water resistant (on box)

Seems promising, so I place my order for it; did the BC cartoon thing of placing my credit card number and order in a bottle, tide floats it out on a wooden plank. A week later this late afternoon, the tide (UPS) delivered a package. I started to disassemble the left front speaker this evening, got the cover screws off, then the speaker mount screws. Here's how the speaker looks:

The new speaker magnet is slightly deeper, [it is a very snug fit against the plastic back of the speaker enclosure. I snipped the wires at the old speaker and installed 3/16-in and 1/4-in SAE spade lugs. Speaker terminals are metric, but these are close enough for government work.] Correction, a later check shows that with the wires now soldered and clearing the speaker enclosure sides without crimp connector interfering, speaker magnet clears back by 1/8 inch. The old speaker has age rot around the rim, parts of the paper cone tears along the edge, so it was due for replacement.

One thing I overlooked is the only true way to do this right is disassemble the fairing to get access at the back of the speaker. Nothing in life is easy, and by my removing screws, the nuts or nut plates on back fell out. To restore will require disassembling the fairing. More to come.

[ghostler]

Using standard crimp connectors did not work. These connectors splayed out 180 degrees interferes with the plastic speaker housing sides such that I could not center the speaker over its mounting holes. The speaker enclosure frame limits options to how wires are mounted to the speaker. Soldering the wires is the only way.

Next, I cut the connectors off and soldered the wires directly to the speaker, similar to the OEM one. To provide wiring strain relief, I used a small wire tie and clamped the wiring to the speaker frame. Similar to OEM, I used the connector's rivet holes for the wires and soldered them there.

To seal around the new speaker, I used insulating foam tape for windows from a home improvement center, 3/8-in x 3/16-in. This was the least expensive at Lowes, around $2.25 for a roll. At first I mounted the speaker with wiring to the right (photo), but then the wires were not long enough to reach the connector. I mounted the speaker with wiring downward as on the OEM speaker.

Tightening speaker mounting screws, the insulation crushes sufficiently to fill the gap, which will provide a total separation from front to back sound waves. I had to be a little quick on mounting the speaker, as the foam tape doesn't adhere well to the speaker frame and slowly was coming loose. With speaker bolted down, the window foam self stick tape does a nice job of sealing the gap completely without distorting the speaker frame.

With speaker cover grill installed, although the tweater sticks out from the speaker, there is still sufficient clearance for it.

I powered up the radio, now there is a distinctive bass coming through the left I was not hearing before. Once I get the left fairing reinstalled ought to then further enhance bass response and further clarify the highs, which are being partially cancelled due to the speaker back not completely sealed off by the fairing. So far, it sounds good. Now off to replace the right front. The other pair for the rear is being shipped. When they arrive I'll install those.

[cranky]

.. good stuff!!!! Thanks!!!!!

[ghostler]

You're welcome, crankyb.

For the right front, I did a better job of wiring the speaker. First, I unsoldered the wires from the old. Then, resoldered the wiring harness onto the new speaker. Since the wiring length did not change, I was able to use the Pioneer's strain relief clamp over the original wiring protective sleeve.

I cleaned the back of the speaker first with spray cleaner and paper towel, foam tape's adhesive did a better job of sticking sufficiently long enough that I was able to drop the speaker into place and tighten it down. When I came time to fasten the grill in place, I cross threaded the lower left socket head screw. The only way I could remove it was drill the head out. This slightly marred the hole from heat. I found another screw same thread but longer and installed a chrome trim washer on it. I'll be able to remove the tool marks from the plastic. the backing plate that arcs across two adjacent holes are identical. Both have an extra mounting hole that fits this one inside lower socket head screw. I'll be able to swap them and use the other non-cross headed one (the good one) to affect this repair.

I checked E-bay, they have several right front XII speaker grills from $10 to $30 shipping included, but they appeared to be no better than mine. Mine came damaged like a previous owner rested a burning cigarette on the top of the speaker grill. It is distorted from heat. Two on E-bay had the same problem, so this appears to be a common problem. Later when there is one in better shape at a good price, I'll go for it.

With the 2nd front speaker connected, I tried the radio. Moving the fader control, now there is a definite difference between front and back, even with the fairing off. Before with the OEM speakers, they both sounded about the same. The sound from these speakers is definitely high fidelity. One thing noticeable is the tone control now has greater dynamic range with the new speakers. The OEM back speakers lacks the crispness of sound, sounds more muffled in comparison.

[ghostler]

Did a quick sound check using my Fuji Finepix S9150 DSLR in video mode. Garage light timed out toward end, got it on a motion sensor, hence why video turns black. The sound will give you an idea of what these speakers sound like. I am fading between front (new) speakers and rear (old) speakers. Sharable link below is from my Google Drive. Click on it and you'll be able to play or download the .MOV movie file.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7T9- ... 0VXRGI0Rzg

[cranky]

... I have a tin ear, but think the new speakers are MUCH better!!!!
Much better base sound... to me...

[dsmmrm]

The new ones sound a lot better tonally for sure. What about volume? I noticed that these speakers are rated for 84db sensitivity vs the triax ones which, IIRC, are 90db. I have no idea what the OEMs are but the 6 db difference in the aftermarket ones is pretty significant.

[dsmmrm]

Oh, and thanks for sharing your project with us! As a newbie I love to learn from the masters.

[ghostler]

You all peaked my curiosity. Okay, we're talking 6 db sensitivity difference, the TS-G1045R coaxial at 84 db, the TS-A1072R triaxial at 90 db. Fading between front and rear, the new speakers are about the same in volume as the OEM mono-axial speakers. Mind you, I don't have the fairing in place, so there is not full separation of the front and back of the speakers, so there is a certain amount of wave cancelling that will diminish total sound output. Also, I don't have a sound meter.

I put these speakers at maximum radio volume, these are loud without distortion. At 210 Watts peak, they exceed the triaxial 150 Watts peak. At the radio's two volume bars, the volume is sufficiently loud enough to fill the garage fully. Any more and I'll probably hear from the missus thinking I may be deaf.

The triaxial has a mid-range lower freq "tweeter", so that probably accounts for a slightly higher sensitivity. The coaxial attempts to make up for this by the design of the woofer and an increased range tweeter.

All in all, the Clarion has sufficient driving power that so far I don't think speaker sensitivity is a critical issue. If one feels that spending twice the cost to get that extra 6 db performance important, by all means go for it.

One thing I noticed is that Pioneer Australia https://www.pioneer.com.au/product-cate ... /speakers/ (Pioneer US is off-line) has not the TS-A1072R triaxial. This tends to let me believe there is a good possibility that the triaxials are no longer produced; once they are gone they are gone.

I'll have more to report on, once I get the rears installed and the fairing buttoned up. The rear speaker set is due to arrive today. So far though, I am impressed with these new speakers, and they are a definite improvement over the old speakers.

[dsmmrm]

No argument about the quality. Your video demonstrated that clearly. I still don't have my Voyager, it is taking a leisurely ride around the country in a truck owned by Haulbikes.com so I don't have a feel for the volume one can get from the stock speakers or if it will be usable for my 75mph commute. I like to listen to the news and weather in the morning and at 60 miles each way on the Ohio turnpike it gets dangerously boring so the added stimulation is helpful. I am scoping out options to add volume if needed and definitely increase quality if possible.

I don't even know if the stereo works on the bike I bought or even if the engine runs so my cart may be so far ahead of my proverbial horse that they may not even be on speaking terms at this point. I am an information junkie so I read everything possible.

[shifterkart26]

Will the TS-G1045R speakers fit in the rear housings without modifications?

[ghostler]

Will the TS-G1045R speakers fit in the rear housings without modifications?

Yes with about 1/8th inch clearance. You'll see that a few photos ahead.

Removal of the speaker requires undoing the 10mm acorn nut with split lock washer, that mounts it to the rear package rack. Disconnect the speaker connector from inside and behind the pillion remote. Remove the pillion back rest, which is held on by 8 bolts inside the trunk lid. Now one can remove the rear speaker cabinets. Once one undoes the small Phillips screws, 2 each on each side of the 3 rubberized shock mounts allows the speaker cabinet bottom to be removed.

The metal cage that holds the speaker is loosened from the speaker top by undoing 4 larger screws. Similar to the front speakers, I unsoldered the speaker wires from the old speaker, and soldered them onto the new speaker. Here is what the speaker top inside looks like with holes that mount the speaker and frame with the larger 4 screws.

Here's what the new speaker looks like mounted in the frame.

The speaker in frame being held by the magnetism of the speaker with the frame. The mounting screws are sticking downward, which fits into the speaker cabinet top.

Here's where those large screws mate when frame is carefully dropped onto the underside of the cabinet top.

Reassembling the rear speaker cabinet will require patience, as it takes a little work to get all the larger screws properly aligned before they will screw into the cabinet top. I used a smaller flat head screw driver since its shaft size allowed me play to get the screw to go in. The larger and proper sized screw driver's shaft was large enough that it kept the screw cocked at an angle preventing it to go in.

[ghostler]

No argument about the quality. Your video demonstrated that clearly. I still don't have my Voyager, it is taking a leisurely ride around the country in a truck owned by Haulbikes.com so I don't have a feel for the volume one can get from the stock speakers or if it will be usable for my 75mph commute.

Volume of the new speakers is at least the volume of the OEM ones. I'll know more when I take the bike out for a spin, but thus far I don't see any issues.

I like to listen to the news and weather in the morning and at 60 miles each way on the Ohio turnpike it gets dangerously boring so the added stimulation is helpful. I am scoping out options to add volume if needed and definitely increase quality if possible.

With the OEM speakers, if I'm heading into the 30 mph headwind traveling at 75 mph, the helmet wind noise and passing semi-trucks tends to make the radio harder to hear, but then I'm more keen on what's around me than what's playing.

I don't even know if the stereo works on the bike I bought or even if the engine runs so my cart may be so far ahead of my proverbial horse that they may not even be on speaking terms at this point. I am an information junkie so I read everything possible.

In this forum are recommendations for radio repair, cost a little over $100, if more they'll advise. The radio increases volume as one goes faster, it is a quality piece of electronics. After any wiring problems, switches and speakers are sorted, if repairs needed, might be worth having a pro look at and repair it.

Here's what the speaker looks like mounted on the bike.

Please note, do not above all attempt putting an Allen wrench into the fake molded Allen screw heads like I did. They look so real, all you do is mar the holes. I used a drill bit to remove the burrs on top. Later I'll touch it up so won't be as obvious. Disassembling the rear speakers was a learning experience.

I did a quick test and this new speaker does provide a better quality sound. When the bike was new, the OEM speakers were probably fine, but over time, the acoustic suspension around the cone hardened, so it lost some of the bass. Not having a tweeter, highs were probably not as strong.

Now on to the right side rear.

[shifterkart26]

Thank you George for the well detailed, step by step pictorial explanation!

[dsmmrm]

Great post, George.

I got the bike and am happy to say the stereo works as intended, although I am missing the passenger remote control. Not a big deal.

I have read all Pete's stuff i can find on the radio and have the volumes set up satisfactorily. The OEM speakers are plenty loud enough but as you noticed, lack clarity so sooner or later I will be doing the upgrade. I do wish someone, someplace had done a side by side comparison between the triax and coax. The cost isn't different enough to be a factor and the volume of both models is apparently sufficient. Since I plan to keep this bike for many years I'd like to get whatever sounds best now. That being said I am not a believer that the more expensive one is automatically the best one so I am torn between the the A or G series of these. There are a couple other ones people have mentioned as well like Polk, Kicker, etc. If anyone has any opinions on these or any others please speak up.

What I might do is buy 2 of each of the different pioneer speakers. Then give it a listen and put whichever I like best in the front and the other ones in back. It is still an upgrade to both sets that way and my curiosity as to which is better will be satisfied, "better" being subjective. I work with a lot of pro audio and am very cognizant of the fact that accurate fidelity is in the ears of the beholder and each individual product's inherent coloration of the sound is perceived differently by different people. The limited EQ function available in the head unit makes the speaker characteristics that much more important.

Oh, and the engine runs, too. Yay! I love this thing, all I have to fix is the cruise control (and the windshield the shipper broke, but that's another story).

[ghostler]

Dave, if you are going for quality, I'd say save your money and just buy the Pioneer TS-A1072R triaxial, as it is the better way. Pioneer lists the TS-A series as their premium series.

The TS-G series, the one I bought is more of their general lower cost series. It is a good compromise between cost and sound. The reason why I went for the G series is that I wanted something that was more affordable but better than the OEM speaker that was also water resistant like the triaxial. I found that to be true. For shipping costs included, $26.99 for 1st set + $ 18.76 for 2nd set = $45.75 total met my budget target.

Here's what the speakers sound like at sound level set to 1 bar on the Clarion radio:



July 31, 2017 P.S. I revised the title and commentary of this same video. My old title was misleading, because this video was made after all 4 speakers were replaced with the Pioneers. As you will note, the bass is better up front than back due to the small rear cabinets, which doesn't allow the bass to reverbrate as well as it does up front, but it still comes through when compared with my earlier video with the rear still as Clarion.

[dsmmrm]

Those do sound good. Much better than the OEM, for sure. My concern, though, is that despite the price the A series might not really sound any better. My reasoning is that the third element in the triaxial one is for midrange and 4" speakers tend to be middy to begin with. I would rather hear them together if possible. It's entirely possible the coax may sound "better" in this application, at least to my tastes. If I had less ethics I buy both, mount them in a test baffle, and return the ones I liked least.

[ghostler]

Dave, I don't know where one would be able to find a side-by-side comparison. At least I found that I am content with my purchase. I'm a musician. Here, I am using an FM transmitter with MP3 player and USB thumb drive for play list plugged into my cigarette lighter style power connector, transmitting to the Clarion's RF section.



It is a portion of sound track from my Youtube video



Figuring it is a re-recording of a recording done with my Fujiflim S9150 DSLR twice, bass still comes out. I would suspect that the triaxial would have a slightly better overall frequency response, as they would tailor the materials used to make the reproducer section, and the 6 db improved sensitivity. But as you see, without having the triaxial to compare with, these are decent speakers, so I doubt you could go wrong with either. This is coming from a musician, LOL.

[dsmmrm]

Wow, the sax sounds great, George. I. too, am a musician, although I play guitar in a rock band so I'm a tad less refined. OK, maybe a lot.

It looks like you have the new speakers in both front and back in this vid. Is this the case? If so, it's interesting that the cabinet size is having a pretty big impast on the sound.

Clearly both models are a significant upgrade to the stock speakers. I will have a bit of time to ponder it as it will be a while before I can find the money to do the upgrade. I think the suspension will have to come first. I'll let you know what I end up with. There is 100% certainty hat I will be doing it eventually.

[ghostler]

Wow, the sax sounds great, George. I. too, am a musician, although I play guitar in a rock band so I'm a tad less refined. OK, maybe a lot.

You're welcome, Dave, glad to meet a fellow musician. I help out in nursing home visitations with my music, lead the music at the local Salvation Army Corps chapel, and play sax in the Clovis Community Band. Couple years ago, played sax during a convention of New Mexico county supervisors with the Blues Militia Band here in Clovis. We were the dance band entertainment.

Speaking humor, I did bell ringing for the Salvation Army in front of Wal-mart with my saxes, doing A Capella traditional Christmas music. (People tend to be more generous when a musician is present, plus it was a good lesson in people. Those whom you think will contribute don't, and those whom you least likely think would do.) One late Fall morning, temperatures dipped into the low 20's F (7 C). I had on a thick pair of insulated gloves, bundled up and layered like an eskimo with my motorcycle clothing, which made fingering the bari sax hard. One gentleman walked up to me and told me, "With a little practice, you could be good!"

It looks like you have the new speakers in both front and back in this vid. Is this the case? If so, it's interesting that the cabinet size is having a pretty big impast on the sound.

Yes, now all four are new. The rear cabinets limit bass response due to the small cabinet size. The bass is there, but it is weak, better heard in person, sounds a lot like the somewhat lower end pricey Bluetooth small portable speaker systems you see in the electronic department stores. The Bose Wave radio has good bass because they designed the acoustics for one of the speakers to have a long curling sound chamber inside the cabinet similar to some of the seashells. I guess I could enlarge the 3/16 inch hole in the bottom to allow more air movement to improve bass response, but I'd only want to try that if I had an extra speaker cabinet to play with.

I'm now buttoning up the fairing. Overall response will change again when I have the front speaker rears fully enclosed, but still will have good front bass response. I think this is the compromise that Kawasaki came up with. Pillion passenger hears the music clearly, bass response that travels further than the highs comes from the front. (Sort of like our SUV, factory 6x9's in the back belt out the bass, fronts are more mid and high.)

Clearly both models are a significant upgrade to the stock speakers. I will have a bit of time to ponder it as it will be a while before I can find the money to do the upgrade. I think the suspension will have to come first. I'll let you know what I end up with. There is 100% certainty hat I will be doing it eventually.

I'm sure you'll get it all sorted out. Shoot, I bought my bike in 2013, and now 4 years later I'm replacing the speakers. I was able to find a second set at $18.76 shipping included on Amazon. Since you're budget conscious, with a little patient waiting, you might be able to land 4 speakers at under $40 somewhere. That's basically what I did.