Pioneer TS-G1045R as Replacement Speaker

[dsmmrm]

Glad you are able to share your music for a good cause. That's a great combination.

I agree that it seems those that have money seem intent on keeping it why those of us with less understand need a bit better and are more willing to share what we have. Funny how that works.

Well in my Internet travels I came upon the TS-A1072R for $40 a pair on amazon prime, so free shipping, too. Before I knew it I was clicking like a crazy person.

Gack, what is wrong with me? I had just decided I would wait. After I pull the shoe out of the side of my head that my wife will be inserting later I will install them when I have the front apart to swap out the broken windshield, whenever Cee Bailey gets it to me. At least the windshield is going to be paid for by the shipper who broke the OEM one.

[shifterkart26]

Just installed a set in the front............Not bad, slight/minimal improvement.

[ghostler]

After further tweaking the cruise control adjustment, buttoned up the fairing, took a wee ride in the countryside outside Clovis. Had adjusted the cruise two years ago, this adjustment had never been performed before and that was a first crack. Lately I noticed that the action wasn't quite as crisp as it had been. Now it locks on immediately and tracks well.

The 4 TS-G1045R speakers are a definite improvement over the aged and deteriorated OEM Clarion's. With the Clarions, I had to fade to the front, turning off the back speakers to listen at speed. The audio is much clearer now, volume control has more meaning. Instead of louder and muddier, I can actually hear the lyrics.The tone control is more effective, now, before I had to put it to the maximum.

On the road, sound is coming through clearly with the tone control at the 2 O'clock position. I can also now leave the fader control at mid position with all 4 speakers playing. At 55 mph, I had the volume control at 3 bars out of 5. Since Clovis gets 30 mph headwinds often, later when I'm rolling, will see how it does at 70 mph. At this point, I have no doubts that these speakers will perform.

Future, I might open up the rear speaker cabinet bottom air equalizing hole from 3/16" to 3/8" or 1/2", so more air movement will be allowed for better bass response.

All in all, I am very pleased with my speaker upgrade. They definitely outperform the OEM Clarions and are a suitable replacement.

[shifterkart26]

I'm still waiting for the second set to arrive to replace the rears. What was wrong with the CC, and how did you adjust it?

[ghostler]

It has to do with the play in the cruise cable. There is a cable adjuster on the back side of the servo. Remove the 3 bolts mounting the servo to fairing frame. Undo the lock nut with a 10 mm wrench, roll the adjusting sleeve back until cable play is within limits. Instructions are in the service manual supplement fuel section.

[shifterkart26]

Rears installed.........Slight/minimal improvement.

[ghostler]

There are limits to how well a 4 inch sound reproducer will perform. 4 inch has 12.6 square inches area. 6 inch has 28.3 sq. in., 15 inch has 176 sq. in.

The power to drive low frequency bass with smaller reproducers will take more effort than with larger ones. I have a Panasonic 5-DVD changer theatrical sound system with two 6 inch woofers (56.6 sq. in.). It was not the top one in their line but next to it. It has a really nice frequency spectrum response, makes movies and musical performances come alive with decent bass. It works fine, why I am still using it 11 years later. Yet my portable 15 inch powered 800 Watt PA speaker with 3-1/2 times the square inch area and larger tweeter beats it hands down with its bass and overall frequency response.

Of course, there are some affects by the quality of the speaker, but in general with speakers of similar quality, a bike with 6 inch speakers will always out perform one with 4 inch speakers.

7/22/2017, 4:30 am P.S. - Yesterday evening was a special gathering, a "Luau" party at High Plains Harley-Davidson. There was a decent headwind on the way, put the volume up full to test distortion. I can clearly make out the lyrics, voice comes through much clearer than with the old Clarion speakers. With freer moving voice coil and cone, these definitely pump out the volume. Half way through the event toward sundown, I was at my bike to check out a few things. I made the mistake of turning the system on not realizing I had the volume full up, the XII's volume control switch isn't that quick acting and for a short bit I was interfering with the outdoor PA music.

Riding home with volume on 3 clicks, the speakers definitely put out enough volume, I'm certainly pleased with my cost effective upgrade. For solo riding, placing most the volume up front is more effective. With automatic volume control (AVC) at 2 O'clock position, results are dramatic compared over the OEM speakers, I'll need to dial that back a bit. Regarding the slightly lower sensitivity over the Pioneer's premium triaxial, my gut level feeling after experiencing these cost effective coaxials is a non-issue.
Am I pleased? Definitely.

[ghostler]

Regarding high expectations for 4 inch speaker bass performance, there is a possibility that this may not realistically be achieved when compared with larger diameter speakers. One site had a comparison between different car 4 inch speakers, http://caraudiodetail.com/best-4-inch-car-speakers/.

According to them, the more expensive JBL 4 inch speaker, the GTO429 premium coaxial provided the best all around sound experience. I don't know if these would be suitable for the XII, there is no mention of water resistance, which would be required.

See the comments on https://www.amazon.com/JBL-GTO429-Premi ... 008AGVF6E/. Those comments express caveats regarding this 4 inch speaker's performance.

I suppose if one could install a small woofer box on their bike might further enhance performance. However on the road, with windy conditions and traveling speeds, about the only way one will get quality sound is through an in-helmet headset.

[dsmmrm]

I finally got my windshield from cee bailey so I put in my front speakers while I had the fairing apart. I went with the A1072R speakers. They are a couple bucks more but at $40 for the set they stayed within reason.

So?

No additional bass response but I wasn't expecting any out of 4 inch speakers. above 250hz or so the frequency response is much flatter than the clarions. with the oem speakers there was very pronounced hump around 600-800 hz that made certain notes blare out of the mix at higher volumes and made the overall structure of the music difficult to discern. now I get a fairly well balanced mix where I can hear all the instruments, if not all the frequencies they are putting out. It is definitely an improvement. I am undecided if I will do the rears.

[ghostler]

I renamed my 2nd video that I made because my YouTube title was misleading. This was produced with all 4 speakers replaced with the Pioneer G1045R's. If you look closely, you'll see the new Pioneer's tweeter through the grills. There is noticeable bass coming through the rears that wasn't with the old Clarions, although the front obviously is better due to the larger air space behind the speakers.

When the Clarions were new, they probably were OK. They are acoustic suspension and with a plastic inner dome over the voice coil, which for the technology 20 years ago was the best available for a relatively lower cost tourer. Over time the acoustic impregnated suspension cloth dried and hardened some with cracking, reducing overall audio quality. Considering 16 years of heat and aging, they still pretty good. I remember the old paper speakers in cars, such as my parent's 1964 Ford Falcon. 6 years later while in high school, the paper had become so brittle it was badly torn at the accordion edges and needed replacing.

I noticed these speakers have impregnated cloth acoustic suspension similar to the Clarions, which meant they were designed to have a longer life. One thing I learned is to stay away from the cheaper foam rubber acoustic suspension speakers.

About 4 years ago, I replaced my 1999 Chevy S10 OEM 4x6 dash speakers with Pyle triaxials. They sounded really nice initially. After 2 years passed, the foam rubber acoustic suspension hardened and cracked prematurely. I replaced them with monoaxial standard speakers. They don't sound quite as good as the Pyles when new, but are okay and will last. I've got 6 inch Sony's in the door panels. Those are now 13 years old, sound OK, could use replacing, but it's my "work" vehicle.

July 7, 2017 P.S. Saturday, I rode with friends to Muleshoe, TX, 30 miles away, 75 mph on Highway US-84. There was may be a 15 mph cross breeze, traffic was light. With sound at 3 out of 5 bars, volume was adequate, speech and music lyrics were clear. I had the fader turned mostly to front with little back. With a full face helmet on and face shield cracked open so I could hear, the backs are hard to hear with helmet and of very little benefit. I had the auto-volume-gain (AVG) at the 1:00 O'clock setting. I made the right choice with my buy, and am very pleased with my installation and their performance.

[jorgecuervo]

Hello all. Has anyone tried some 5.25" or 6" speakers mounted in some aftermarket speaker pods for the rears to get more bass?

[ghostler]

I dunno, I suppose you could. Bass notes travel further than high freq. notes (why sub-base woofers are annoying to those listening outside the vehicle). Pillion would hear the highs from the rear with more the bass coming from the front augmented by the weaker from the rear, so may be size isn't an issue.
Isn't that why they provided a remote, to satisfy the female pillion passenger with control over the system?

[jorgecuervo]

Yes indeed, keep her happy Here are some 6-1/2 pods although I've been thinking about the smaller 5-1/2 ones just thinking about not being so large as to be garish. I've been in my yard when a newer GoldWing drives by with the radio on and I was amazed at how loud and clear the tunes were. I know the bigger speakers will be more bass but that the pods will limit the bass. Maybe a drilled port in the bottom would help. I was also thinking about replacing the stock 10 watt per channel amp with a 20-25 watt one. I've seen posts asking about amps but I've not seen anyone respond who had done so. Anybody do that yet? I appreciate any insight/experience offered!

[jorgecuervo]

Oops, the link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CA5UQ ... ypt+towers

[ghostler]

I suppose you could add post amplification to the Clarion. On my bike, the Clarion provides for more than enough amplification to drive the speakers, that I have found such a measure unnecessary. After all, doesn't one retain a 31 year old technology bike is to save money? My later model 2001 is now 16 years old. Otherwise, I'd opt for the latest and greatest for the cost of an entry level mid size crossover SUV. The audio system does a good job for its integrated compactness.

Regarding the speaker pods, I can envision how I'd do it. Wood when properly sealed and finished can look like a component part of the bike. I'd cut a piece of plywood at least 3/8 inches thick in a rectangle about the size of the current pod footprint. Bolt it to the package rack. Use another bolt with fender washer to fit the threaded hole in pod to mount to plywood.

I don't know if I'd drill a relief hole in the pod for acoustic suspension air movement relief. Those pods are pricey and a thing of beauty.

Getting back to your original question of adding an aftermarket amplifier, this is academic as I have not done this to the Clarion, so YMMV (your mileage may vary). There are preamplifier channel left and right wiring coming off the wiring harness from the main radio unit to amplifier. These could be tapped into, but due to the sensitivity of and possibility of blowing out the more sensitive radio circuits (radio has CMOS digital computer circuitry), plus, possibly needing some additional circuitry components for reasonable isolation and possibly impedance matching (resistors, capacitors, coils, may be opto-isolators, may be a transistor or two, etc.) to properly mate, without a schematic circuit diagram, is something I personally shy away from.
(Note, input from one of the true radio guru's would be appreciated, TIA.)

The amplifier has left and right channel speaker outputs (see schematics and diagrams in the audio troubling shooting manual in download section of this forum, fader wiring is in the supplement manual wiring diagram - rear speakers added in 1987, 1986 doesn't have) that could be rechanneled to a 2 channel Line Out Converter (see Crutchfield, https://www.crutchfield.com/g_721/Line- ... rters.html. Connect converter to left and right inputs of aftermarket power amp. Connect power amp speaker outputs to fader control, where old amplifier outputs used to go. This would be less intrusive to the existing system. You wouldn't need a very powerful aftermarket amp, just one with more output than OEM. I'd be concerned about blowing out the fader control if too powerful.

If amp has its own fader control with outputs for the rear speakers, synthesizes rear output from only two input channels (not 4), fader control can be bypassed and speakers connected directly, but then there might be an issue of accessibility to that control.
Again, YMMV.

[jorgecuervo]

Thanks George all good points. I did save a lot of money on my 02 and I did buy old to save money. But having done that, I have some room to spruce her up, although not enough to just pay people to do all the enhancements and repairs. Adding some chrome and air wings and better tunes and what not makes her seem newer to me as well, and if I had the money to spend on a new one I'd STILL be buying stuff to add and improve that bike just cause I couldn't help myself!

I had it in my head to make a plate to mount the pods just exactly like you suggested only I was thinking some aluminum plates. The plywood is a great idea tho: cheaper and plus may provide at least a smidgen of damping for vibration compared to metal.

I didn't even consider messing the pods up by drilling a hole in them, so that's good advice. And on further consideration, I'm not gonna get the kind of bass out of these that would even benefit from a port anyway

I was wondering how the amp would hook up but not anymore It's sounds pretty simple. As always you are a fount of detailed info lol I took a ride today and now I'm thinking I should just replace the OEM speakers with the Pioneers first, as the 15 yr old ones are pretty loud but have a good bit of distortion. Then if they clear up and I want more oomph, I can upsize the rears with the stock amp and see where it's at then b4 getting a more powerful amp...

[ghostler]

Jorge, you're welcome. I took another look at what might work for an aftermarket audio amp. Available for under $30 is:

https://smile.amazon.com/PLMRA120-240-W ... B000N5UW8M

Following are the connectors on its front and back:

Because it is marine grade means it is water resistant. It has Low Input (4) through the 2 RCA audio jacks, so one doesn't need to have a 2 channel Line Out Converter, it is built into the amp. This is where you'd connect the Clarion amp output wiring to. The speaker screw terminals (7) on the back is where the wiring to the Clarion's speaker fader control would go that was connected to the Clarion amp.

One would need to provide +12 Volt power to it through the Power Connector (6).

To trigger the Pyle amp on (6 - Remote), most likely they would obtain this from the 6 pin DIN connector "E" that goes from the Clarion main unit to the Clarion amp. Following is the connector's wiring:

Most of the time if the pins are numbered clockwise means one is looking at the soldering side of the connector. This would be Pin #4, 12V SUPPLY from the connector.

Following is the cable layout diagram from the Audio Troubleshooting Manual, showing Cable "E":

(Note, the Pyle amp High Input (2) uses a special type Molex connector. This is where one would connect the outputs from the Clarion radio unit (but only if they knew what they were doing - don't recommend without proper expert advice and possible need for additional components to properly terminate.)

I'd mount the Pyle amp somewhere inside the fairing where it can be accessed keeping wiring short, like through the headlight hole. Then one only needs to unbolt the headlight unit to gain access to adjust amp's volume.

Again, at least for me, the Clarion amp provides more than ample volume to these speakers, so I personally don't see any advantage to adding an aftermarket amp.
Since I haven't done this myself and I have no idea to the quality of the Pyle amp, information is academic, YMMV (your mileage may vary).

[dsmmrm]

I have looked at these types of amps before. Pyle is pretty sketchy low end stuff but may work ok. There are more expensive options for the same sort of amps that may be more reliable. YMMV.

One thing that is interesting is that they also have high level inputs that you can plug speaker outputs directly into. For example, you could mount it in the trunk and run the rear speaker wires from the stock system into the amp as the inputs and possibly even power it with the trunk light circuit since it has a hot lead that is always on. You would need to check what kind of load that circuit can support, of course. This would obviously only work to power the rear speakers but there has been some discussion about putting larger speakers back there and this may be a way to power them more effectively.

Also, remember, one of the biggest obstacles to adding a power amp has always been the charging system output. Keep an eye on the system voltage if you do this sort of mod so you don't find yourself stranded.

[ghostler]

dsmmrm, you have a valid point regarding the power tax on the electrical system. The power budget on the lower powered Pyle PLMRA120 is 5 Amps. It probably won't break the bank but must be taken into account. Have you used Pyle amps before?

Only reason why I ask, is products manufactured in China vary from very good to mediocre, depending on the factory that produced it. 6 years ago I bought a Venus soprano saxophone, paid $230 shipping included for it. I purchased it after I did a search on Venus and found that compared with other bargain brands, it had decent ratings. It plays like a decent intermediate (between beginner band and expert grade) instrument that I'd probably pay about $1,500 for. (Makes it understandable why our industries can't complete against the extremely low foreign wages and modernized facilities that produce these.) Below is a link to a short video on my Google Drive, with me playing Stevie Wonder's "Someone Loves Me":

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7T9-F ... sp=sharing

I bought a Gemini ES15TOGO portable 15 inch 200 Watt RMS 800 Watts Peak powered PA system with Bluetooth, 2 wireless UHF mikes, MP3 player, AM/FM raido, dual power internal 7AH 12V battery and external 120~240 VAC. Has wheels and luggage telescopic handle for wheeling around. Paid a little less than $300 from Musician's Friend. It is my portable sound system. Nearest things in brand names are 2 to 4 times as much. So far it has been a solid performer. Nearing 1 year warranty expiration, battery went dead. I bought a replacement for $20, unsoldered the wires to old battery, installed spade lug crimp connectors, reconnected, which fixed it. Sending under warranty would have cost me $71 (owner pays shipping to service center, they return for free), unit weighs about 50 lbs. once one adds the box & packing.

Yes, they cut some corners. The luggage handle had a few dings when it arrived because it was shipped in original box with inadequate packing, and is made of light gauge steel. Wires to battery, color code did not match polarity (red on (-) black on (+)). I used my label maker and labeled the wires, so next time I replaced the battery, wouldn't forget. Screws used to hold battery holding bracket in place were fine thread machine screws (metric similar to #8-32), difficult to remove and didn't bite well in the plastic holes. I replaced them with truss head sheet metal screws. The cabinet is of softer plastic which easily scratches.

Therefore regarding Pyle, I've found some cheap electronics decent, others mediocre. This is why I concluded with YMMV.
The Clarion amp is plenty loud enough, that this musician doesn't need any more ride amplification.

[dsmmrm]

Hi George,

Nice work on the horn.

Musician's Friend and their sibling, guitar center, have a bunch of my money, too. I have traditionally used JBL and Crown in the PA but have bought more and more behringer stuff in recent years with decent results. It is Chinese as well although designed in Europe.

I have bought a number of Pyle products but no amps. The most recent has been a batch of 50' speakon terminated heavy duty cables. I have had about a 30% failure rate in those as the ends frequently need to be re[placed or fixed. I have had a couple other electronic gizmos from them as well but since they are more of a branding company slapping their name on various manufacturer's products rather than making their own the quality varies quite a bit. As you say, YMMV.

For me adding an amp the the rear is more about accommodating bigger speakers back there to get a fuller sound than it is about overall volume. Plus, the Clarion amp is generally operating close to its limits when you have the volume at highway level. I have always been of the mind set that more headroom is always a good thing.

My band's PA's CLAIMED output is around 8,500 watts between berhringer and crown digital class d amps. In reality it is closer to a quarter of that. I imagine Pyle and the other lower end mfgs use the same "total power into 2 ohms the second before it blew up" measurement methods that berhringer and others use.

In any case, for me what I have no will suffice for the foreseeable future. I am suffering from lowdough, a serious illness that can be life threatening if I buy any more stuff.