key won't turn the bike off

[Nails]

In this recent thread (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11583) I describe electrical weirdness that I thought was due to a low battery. But the battery is now fully charged. Now it's a persistent problem, apparently with the bike, and maybe associated with winter storage.

When starting, I get a slight hesitation and clunk that sounds like the solenoid jumping out and back in. Then the dash lights up, turn signals included. It starts, but as soon as I take my thumb off the starter it dies. And then I can't turn anything off with the key. The dash lights stay on, the headlight and running lights stay on, even with the key removed. I have to disconnect the battery.

When I hook it up again, all seems swell. But when I start it the starter motor clunks, the dash lights up funny, and we otherwise goto the beginning of this thread.

Some electrical weirdness or a full-on demon possession. Dunno.

[cushman eagle]

In my 50 years of working on farm tractors,I have seen several starter solenoids damaged by low battery voltage.With a low voltage,there is a lack of currant to draw in the magnetic switch to make good contact to power the starter,and the switch will partially weld itself together.This can cause the starter to keep running,and back feeding the electrical system,even when the starter button is released.This often calls for a new solenoid.

[Nails]

That's my suspicion too. I never heard that clunking before this all showed up. And initially the new battery was low.
I'll see what happens when I disconnect the starter (both wires). I'll probably go ahead and pull the solenoid.
Haven't researched this yet, but I believe I've seen horror stories.
Sheesh. I do wish the new problems would be kind enough to wait until after I've solved the last problem.

[Nails]

I notice that solenoids are either $10 or $100. I also notice problems with cheap ones. I didn't see anything in dollar-for-dollar. Just asking, has anyone found a non-OEM one that seems good?

[cushman eagle]

I recently installed a china built relay (a continuous use solenoid)in a tractor to power up the cab circuit.It lasted all of 15 minutes before it left the smoke out.I had to find a USA built one to hold the 20 amp load .I left the unit run under load for 35 minutes today,and the relay was still cool enough to hold my hand on.

[Nails]

Okay, I'll order OEM tomorrow morning (27010-0788, supersedes -1209, $113.09). Not exactly USA, but not Chinese either.
I'm sure OEM is overpriced, but have no idea how to identify a viable alternative.

BTW, I'm also restoring a John Deere 1010W diesel: the worst option of the worst version of the worst model JD ever made. Just so you know what kind of a genius you're dealing with here.

[Me Again]

Okay, I'll order OEM tomorrow morning (27010-0788, supersedes -1209, $113.09). Not exactly USA, but not Chinese either.
I'm sure OEM is overpriced, but have no idea how to identify a viable alternative.

BTW, I'm also restoring a John Deere 1010W diesel: the worst option of the worst version of the worst model JD ever made. Just so you know what kind of a genius you're dealing with here.

You would be money ahead if you just go to fleabay and pick one up for 1/2 that.

[Nails]

You would be money ahead if you just go to fleabay and pick one up for 1/2 that.

I can find them for 1/10th that. That's the problem: I'm trying to find something that actually works.

[HarryL]

I had posted previously about my ebay starter solenoid failure where after only a few weeks use, it fused itself together one morning and the starter continued cranking after the motor started. I had to get a battery cable loose to stop it. Things were getting really hot.
It had super soft copper plates inside that I'm sure were not factory specs.
I installed a used factory solenoid that has been working so far and I agree that $113 is a lot of money for a solenoid.

[Me Again]

You would be money ahead if you just go to fleabay and pick one up for 1/2 that.

I can find them for 1/10th that. That's the problem: I'm trying to find something that actually works.

Please do not get me wrong. I was not suggesting an aftermarket one .

[cushman eagle]

Okay, I'll order OEM tomorrow morning (27010-0788, supersedes -1209, $113.09). Not exactly USA, but not Chinese either.
I'm sure OEM is overpriced, but have no idea how to identify a viable alternative.

BTW, I'm also restoring a John Deere 1010W diesel: the worst option of the worst version of the worst model JD ever made. Just so you know what kind of a genius you're dealing with here.

Yes I know about the 1010/2010 diesel engine.we have had good luck working with them,but many people have had no satisfaction at all.The sleeve/deck can be a problem to get the sleeve/deck assembly down in the block squarely to get all O-rings loaded without pinching or shearing one.The 1010 also had issues trying to get the hydraulic system sealed.
Just for your information I bought a Farmall 400 diesel 7 years ago,and used it for 7 hours today Some people think the same thing about my gas start diesel as they think of your 1010 diesel!

[Nails]

Please do not get me wrong. I was not suggesting an aftermarket one.

Okay, thanks. I like used electronics about as much as known-problem aftermarket. I started this thread to see if there might be a known-good aftermarket.

Not sure why, but it didn't seem to hurt so much paying this silly price. Maybe it's because I had this same issue with coils: new one's are hard to come by, and aftermarket has a bad rap. I ended up with one used one (from Carl Leo, to replace one that definitely was bad) plus two new aftermarket ones. I'm actually carrying one of the aftermarkets as a spare. (I did find out that coils aren't really left and right, just the bracket is.)

Yes I know about the 1010/2010 diesel engine.

Okay, I hate to hijack my own thread. So see PM.

But maybe the point is that XII actually are rather "agro" (agricultural) -- starting with the straight-cut gears. My mid-50's tractor, which has had an unnaturally hard life, still runs. Maybe in another 50 years the XII will too!

[Nails]

I should get the solenoid Monday -- but my local shop hasn't been batting very well lately. I took the existing one off today. The rubber boots looked good on the outside, but one was completely filled with white powder (corrosion). I'm fine with putting in a new one.

[Mr Jensee]

Nails did you get my PM about the windshield? If not please read it.

[Nails]

It was a funky old solenoid (relay). The new one totally exorcised that particular demon, apparently taking the Dead-Cylinder-Demon (my other thread) with him. Sing Hallelujah!

But my local dealer still sucks. They promised this more than a week ago. They kept saying "it isn't in yet" until I finally said "just give me my money back". Then they said, "Oh wait. I think we have one in stock." Turned out to have my name on it (literally) -- instead of calling me, they just put it on the shelf. I've really tried to support local, but this just ain't getting it. I don't want a new bike, if I need service I'll take it to an independent shop, and from now on it's Webistan for all parts.

Next, Progressive springs. That leaky fork seal, that I fixed last year with the "sealmate" trick, started leaking again. Fortunately, I already have these parts, except for the springs.

[cushman eagle]

I have experienced many different symptoms with bad solonoids and you found one of them.