Starter lockout switch

[Nails]

Does anyone have a P/N for the starter lockout switch (what I'd call the clutch lever switch)? I can't find it in my parts manual.

My switch works in hand ... with consideration for the repair manual error that Dave found (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9352&p=70661&hilit= ... tch#p70661). But when I plug it in, it screws up in various ways. I've had the switch apart, and the only thing I can figure out is maybe the pins are somehow pushing the brass strips around.

These brass strips have tabs that are accessible externally, to put a meter on. The conductivity as measured here is correct when not plugged in, but screws up when plugged in. I've stretched the plate spring a little (firmer contact), put little pads behind the brass strips (also firmer contact), and looked for mechanical failure, to no avail.

The only other thing I can figure is a problem downstream in the harness, like maybe something to do with the neutral switch. But I don't know how to chase that; and I'm done screwing with it and just want to parts-swap

This cropped up for me when the cruise stopped working. It fails this test, on the 13-pin connector of the cruise control (well, I paraphrase):

Meter to 11 (Starter lockout switch, Y/G) and 19 (Ground, BK/Y) should read 0 ohm when clutch lever is pulled with transmission in gear.

Often I get infinity ohms whether the clutch is in or out. Pump the lever and I can get anything from 0 to infinity. Pull the lever slowly, and the ohms can jump back and forth. So, I'm pretty sure it's in the switch, and I'm ready to replace it.

Also pretty sure the other part of this switch works fine. At least, when I hit the starter when in gear, the bike behaves appropriately for my dumb ass.

Really want the cruise to work. But not yet sure this is the only problem, though.

[Highway Rider]

Is this the part number you are looking for. 27010-1406

[triton28]

Nails;
the neutral switch has the male brass terminal as part of the actual switch housing; the Bk/R wire connects to it. The OD switch wire is the short Bk wire pigtail, coming from the common Neutral/OD switch housing, with a male wire terminal crimped onto the short pigtail.
Both of these switches are Normally Open circuits until either neutral or overdrive is selected by the operator. If one bypasses either switch, with a short jumper wire from the chassis harness to ground, then the circuit selected for bypassing will show up as an illuminated light on the meter assembly for the selected circuit regardless of whether or not the gear change drum is actually in neutral or overdrive.
As well for persons having trouble with the side stand switch, it can be bypassed by disconnecting and joining the 2 wires connected to the switch together.
With respect to the cruise not working I once found the bottom cover of the switch, mounted on the front master cylinder, had fallen off and parts of the cruise portion of the switch went awol. Usually simple cruise problems are either the front or rear brake switches and once in a rare while the carburetor switch, or the OD switch wiring is not connected/broken/missing/corroded at the switch assembly.
If you cannot start the bike in gear with the clutch lever at rest but you can start the bike with the lever pulled in to the bars that to me rules out that switch. Unless of course it works this sequence in an intermittent manner.
Aren't electrical gremlins miserable? Hope this helps in some small way,
Dave

[SgtSlag]

Very helpful, Dave! Had cruise issues crop up last Fall, no luck in tracking them down. Now I have several things to look at, and check. Thank you!

[Nails]

Is this the part number you are looking for. 27010-1406

Yes, thank you. On order.

I googled: "Voyager XII" "starter lockout switch". But all I got were some blogs, suspiciously subversive and sinister. Everybody used code names like "Triton28" and "Highway Rider". Got the hell out of there.

[Nails]

the neutral switch has the male brass terminal...

Hopefully I won't need to got there. I think the starter-safety side of the clutch switch, as well as the neutral switch, are working fine; and only the cruise-cancel side of the toggle is screwed up. I thought of just cutting that wire -- I can live without the clutch cancel. But for just $15, I'll replace the whole switch and fix it right.

I'll leave the clutch disconnected when I button it up and test the cruise, jamming a ground wire in the cruise side. And try to be careful about starting in neutral.

Usually simple cruise problems are either the front or rear brake switches and once in a rare while the carburetor switch,

Those are in series on one circuit, pin 16. It passed, and I also checked each switch individually. The foot brake wasn't adjusted correctly. The throttle switch works (opens if the decel cable bracket is pushed down), but just closing the throttle when the bike is parked (as suggested in the cruise checks in the manual) doesn't open it).

I notice that the brakes and clutch all have two switches (usually a compound switch), one normally open (if closed, the starter works or the brake lights come on), and the other normally closed (if opened, the cruise cancels). I'll ground/close that side of the clutch switch until the replacement comes in.

Aren't electrical gremlins miserable?

Lordy. Continued thanks for your help.

[cbrfxr67]

That's good info right there Dave!

printing that out

[Nails]

Had cruise issues crop up last Fall, no luck in tracking them down.

I recommend starting with the diagnostics on about page 338 in the repair manual. You can check most of it on that 13-pin connector.

I think these old switches generally are becoming crotchety.

[Mr Jensee]

Nails the part number for that switch on bikebandit.com is 27010 and it is $25 and still available. You can find it on their blowout on OEM Clutch Master Cylinder. You are welcome.

[Nails]

Success! I could Set it for the first time in about a year.

If you unplug the clutch switch, the bike won't start unless you ground the middle wire. And the neutral light stays on unless un-ground it.

So I can ride while waiting for the switch. $14, free shipping, Classic Cycle Parts.

[triton28]

Glad you got it fixed.

[Nails]

Electrical engineers seem adept at making things unnecessarily complicated, and the designers of this bike buy into that wholly. As one example, you'd think they could find a way to use one on/off switch for the cruise control. The throttle switch involves a moving cable anchor, which in turn requires the throttle to be adjusted with slop. The whole cruise control is rube goldburg and prone to failure.

I moved my cruise control lights and switches to the fairing because I thought it looked ugly on the "gas tank" -- I wanted to put a map there. I also dumped all the audio crap, including the "second story" switchset on the left. This orphaned the Radio/Tape switch, which is normally open, push to close. I repurposed this to be the cruise On switch. If I had it to do over, I'd wire that Radio/Tape switch to replace the carb switch, making it a Cancel button. Then I'd dump the carb switch et.al. and adjust the throttle without slop. I'd put the cruise On switch on the fairing, next to the Off switch I already have there. (The Off switch is push to open. But why couldn't they figure out a way to use just one switch?)

As backup, I already installed a Vista Cruise throttle lock. I love the cruise control (when it works), especially since defeating the O/D switch. (Looking forward to setting the cruise at 30 on the Dragon because I'm sure to get busted for speeding without it.) But I honestly use the throttle lock more, just because I can lock/unlock it immediately -- I use it when I want to do something else with my right hand quickly. I generally use the cruise for droning on the superslab. But sometimes I get confused about which one to turn off.

[Barry]

I sometimes use my front brake to cancel the cruise. It's possible to do a light tap and not apply the brakes.

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

I sometimes use my front brake to cancel the cruise. It's possible to do a light tap and not apply the brakes.

Ditto, dozens of times a year in fact!

[Nails]

There's lots of ways to cancel. The throttle switch is problematic and totally unnecessary.
Some cage people tap their brakes too. I prefer to hit Cancel. (It isn't the only thing I'm opinionated about.)

[Barry]

The throttle switch works (opens if the decel cable bracket is pushed down), but just closing the throttle when the bike is parked (as suggested in the cruise checks in the manual) doesn't open it).

Many years ago when riding with a group of vxii's I was almost rear ended. The bike following me had it's cruise on and was overtaking me. One of his throttle cables had broken. He tried to close his throttle and the cruise didn't disconnect. Also his rear brake switch didn't work. Fortunately his front brake switch did. After that, I verified the switch on my carbs worked. Sometimes there's only a split second to react. A working carb switch is a good thing. Having several ways to kill the cruise system is a safety item.

I also have a Vista Cruise throttle lock that gets used on shorter rides. I got it when I was several days from home and the cruise control brains died. I've always carried a spare speedometer cable inside the fairing. I assumed that the cable would someday break, but keeping it lubed & clean has me still spinning a 32 year old cable. Good maintenance habits save time & money.

[Nails]

Having several ways to kill the cruise system is a safety item.

For the record, I think my throttle switch still works. It sure used to (takes a fair effort to twist the throttle against the actuator), but I don't think the test (about pg 338 or so in the manual), which implies that the cancel circuit should open when you close the throttle, actually works that way. (The brake switches do work "static".) The manual has a follow-up test for that switch (involves pushing on the cable clamp), which my bike passed. It should cancel when the cruise is on and you close the throttle against the actuator; but I don't think it'll cancel with the bike on the side-stand and the fairing off (as necessary put the meter on it in the first place).

And I don't really care because I still don't think this switch really offers much safety, despite your story. A broken throttle cable and a wonky brake switch -- sounds like a third fail involves maintenance. Not to mention any road circumstances that led to the emergency situation in the first place, like maybe rolling off the throttle and going for the brakes together, right off the bat. (Dunno, wasn't there.) I don't want to dissect your incident, but it sounds like there were several potential fails. And your pal didn't even make it to this particular switch, anyway. (Your idea of tapping the front brake would've worked, though.)

Respectfully ... I'm just saying that a string of equipment and other failures doesn't justify throwing in yet another "safety" measure. The "cancel" circuit (referring to the manual) includes both brakes and the throttle. There are several other cancel options, such as pulling the clutch switch. My take-home is to check the bike out every now and then to see if at least most of it works right.

And since I'm on this soapbox, I think the cruise control itself offers some safety benefit, such as being able to concentrate on the road without being distracted by the throttle. (I have trouble keeping a steady speed on this bike, maybe because I can't hear or feel the motor very well.) But I think cruise is downright dangerous in traffic or similar surprise risks. That's when I'd definitely use the Vista Cruise instead.

I think this whole shitterie was designed at a time when cruise control was pretty new, especially on bikes. I'm sure it's easier to manage with FI; and I'm windging about the rube goldberg of making it work with carburetors. I think a little simplicity, especially regarding the electrical circuitry, could help it work better, more reliably, and maybe even safer!

I don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to defend this piddly throttle switch or not. I'm just spouting an opinion -- one that means about as much to me as a goose fart on a windy day. But the next time I'm in there, this throttle switch might be toast.

[Barry]

The engineers for this bike apparently never heard of the KISS (keep it simple stupid) system.
To add to the story, I found out later that the bike with the broken cable had lots of other issues from being neglected. Also the owner had no interest in doing any maintenance and was reluctant to take it to a shop. He was one of those people that didn't fix anything until it broke. He also managed to drop his bike in my driveway making a U turn. In hindsight, he probably never took a MSF class or had any training. For all I know, he might not have had a motorcycle endorsement on his license. His excuse for almost running into me was the cruise was on, it wouldn't cancel. He panicked and hit the kill switch. I was annoyed with all the things I found wrong repairing his bike. I didn't learn my lesson and ended up 'fixing' other bikes with electrical gremlins. When you can't ask someone what they did to their bike it takes more time determining what's missing or broken.

I don't have any issues with the modifications you're doing. Especially since you have a firm grasp of how electrical circuits work. I'm also sure that your wiring is nice & neat. I've seen too many instances where an owner thinks they have a good idea and starts cutting & removing 'unnecessary' stuff. These same owners also like to create spaghetti wiring tied directly to the battery. I wanted to discourage others from trying to copy your modifications. I've noticed there are quite a few people on other vxii forums having problems with their machines as they're pulling them out of winter storage. The things they seem to have in common is no maintenance or owner knowledge of how stuff works.

You're also right. The throttle switch takes extra effort to cancel the cruise. Tapping a brake switch or a cancel button works best. Don't try the clutch switch to disengage cruise. Engines under load rev too quickly.

Hopefully those that read this thread will ask some questions before making modifications. After all, that's how we can all benefit from the experiences of others.

[Nails]

Glad he eventually thought of the brake.

I used to be a smokejumper. Folks said, "Isn't that dangerous, jumping out of a perfectly good airplane into a forest fire?" But none of us could think of a way to get hurt without at least two things going wrong at once.

Now if you routinely do six or so wrong ... Hello, Darwin?

Of course, they'll let pretty-much anybody ride a bike on the street. Now THAT'S dangerous. We only put up with it because it's so common.

[cushman eagle]

I sometimes use my front brake to cancel the cruise. It's possible to do a light tap and not apply the brakes.

Ditto, dozens of times a year in fact!

Ditto,Ditto