Voyager XII confirmation

[krasmu]

This is as much a reply to "sneezer 's " post as it a general post about my recent 2003 Goldwing test ride results. Anyone who has known me for any length of time knows that I have always held a soft spot in my soul for the Goldwing. It has been my dream bike for many years. I test rode one the day I bought my XII but decided it was to big and heavy. But then I was coming from a Honda V45 and test a big touring machine. Up to that point, the largest bike I had ever ridden was my 650. The Voyager sat better and was more nimble. I love my Voyager. But recently as retirement is looming closer and I\'m thinking I may be spending more time on the open road touring, I'm a bit concerned about it's age and lack of shops that may be able to help, if I break down away from home. I started thinking about the Goldwing again just for the peace of mind that it might have a better chance of getting repaired on the road. So, I went and test rode a nice clean 2003 Wing with lots of farkles for a good price. The Wing had 69k miles on it. I had every intention of bringing that Wing home with me. Before the test ride was done, I knew without a doubt that I was not buying a Wing. I walked away with the knowledge that my 1990 Voyager Xii stacks up better than my Dream bike. My Voyager handles like a sportbike compared to that big heavy Wing. The ride was just as soft,(and I\'m still running the OEM suspension and factory oil in the suspension). The location of all the buttons and controls on the Wing were scattered all over the cockpit making me move my hands all over like I was in a car to operate thing as simple as the radio and cruise. The riding position was nearly identical to my Xii, even thought the Wing is a larger bike. The only thing the Wing had over my Xii was the 1800 engine. In the end, I walked away from the Wing with a much better respect for the Voyager and what it brings to the table. My love for the Wing has been nearly extinguished. I still want to test ride the newest Wing they just came out with, but the price point makes it a non-option at this time. I sat tall and proud in the saddle of my old 90 bike and rode it home, gave her a good cleaning and promised her a new set of tires and progressive suspension this winter. I am no longer "at this time" looking to upgrade a bike that burst my dream bubble. So sneezer, yes the Voyager is heavier than your sportbikes but it is also a full touring bike that handles much crisper and as smooth as the Wing. One of my concerns when making the move to a big touring machine was the weight around town. I don't even feel that weight in city traffic or tight parking spaces. It is nimble for a heavy bike. Yes, it fell over softly one time on me and with proper technique, I was able to right it with relative ease. So if you want something that is nimble in the city yet is capable of eating up miles of open road in comfort. Give the Voyager some serious consideration.

[Nails]

I bought my XII a couple of years ago, after a 20-year hiatus from street bikes. I sold my Wing to raise the down payment for a house that I just paid off. It was a 1975 model, the very first year. No fairing, just a windshield, and some hard saddlebags. In 1988, I painted this on its fake tank: When it was still a bike. To the extent I can remember accurately, riding it was much like the XII. The original 1000cc engine was peppy. Similar weight but a truly low center of gravity, it surely could hustle through the corners. And I could ride it all day. When I had it for sale, folks on Aspencades would come by for a test ride. At least one confessed that he didn't really want to buy it, he was just checking on what the old-timer Wing riders were talking about. Yes, it's much snappier than mine. I guess this is an answer to the question, Why didn't Kawa develop the XII? Into what, another 1800cc monstrosity? (The car industry calls it Z-ification , as in what Datsun did to the noble 240Z.) When I bought this XII, I was still on the lookout for a Wing. I wanted a 1200cc model, intending to adapt the earlier bodywork onto it, or the 1200 mill into an 1100 frame. Many parts are interchangeable among those fours, and I wanted to put 1000cc heads on the 1200 -- they were that much better. You can buy intake manifolds for a single carburetor. Wings have a very deep aftermarket. For better or worse, they have held their value fairly well. But alas, I wound up with an XII. And I've been making my XII more like that 75 Wing ever since.

[Barry]

So we purchased an 84 Aspencade new and rode it a few years. Along came children and an end to street riding. When they became teenagers I needed a sanity break. So I bought a vxii. I enjoyed it so much, I've owned 3 over the last 20+ years. Every time I've been in possession of 2, my wife uses my words against me. If they're so reliable, why do you need a spare? I've concluded I will be worn out long before my current ride is.

[SgtSlag]

The Wing's opposing cylinders may be reliable, but they are horse manure for stretching your legs out, on highway pegs! This is true, for me, on every Wing, from 1982 forward... We test drove a new, 2009, at a dealership: absolutely hated it! It was heavy, like the Titanic; unbelievably powerful, 1800cc engine; and the balance was on a razor's edge, due to the salesman running the suspension all the way down, and leaving it there, for us to test drive. I could not wait to get off of it. YUCK!!!:gmad: We owned, and toured on, a 1979 Honda CB750K. It had a Vindicator/Windjammer fairing, with Lowers (had to adapt a pair made for a Wing, but they worked, exceptionally well), soft saddlebags, with a hard trunk on it. We circled Lake Superior on this bike, in 2009... We loved that bike! A year later, we bought our XII, and the Honda sat, neglected, and ignored, until we sold it, in 2012. Saw the Honda CB1200, when it came out: it is a tribute to the legendary CB750's, which changed the industry, in 1969, when they first came out. This bike is amazing, but it comes naked. Craig Vetter sold his company, and it went out of business, back in the 1980's, so you would need to retro-fit a 30+ year old Windjammer to its frame, to dress it out for touring (modern, bolt-on, aftermarket fairings pale in comparison to the Windjammer, sorry, no comparison, period). It could be outfitted with saddlebags, and a trunk. But, it begs the question, why does Honda not build a less expensive alternative to the Wing, using the CB1100 as the base bike? That bike would make an impressive, mid-sized touring bike, if properly equipped for touring: full fairing, with lowers, hard trunk and hard saddlebags (everything would be smaller than the Wing...). It would sell very well, I believe. And, you would not have your legs spread painfully far apart, when you put your feet upon highway pegs... Did I mention that I hate the opposing cylinder engine design?... Cheers!

[cranky]

. never rode a Wing, but I do like the size and power of the XII, and always wished they would put fuel injection in'er.... Agree that there is a glaring hole in the mid-size touring scoot.... Ya don't need a monster rocket ship.. JM2C

[Nails]

The Wing's opposing cylinders may be reliable, but they are horse manure for stretching your legs out, on highway pegs! This is true, for me, on every Wing, from 1982 forward...

The '75 had great highway pegs -- even though I\'m not a fan of flying squirrel ergos. I could put my feet above and in front of the heads, or behind them (where it was warmer). The pegs were located where a bunch of expensive bodywork is now. Honda designed that bodywork on purpose, so this is another self-inflicted wound. The fuel pump also was behind the right head, where it sometimes got too hot and vapor-locked. This was my biggest gripe about that bike.

We owned, and toured on, a 1979 Honda CB750K. It had a Vindicator/Windjammer fairing, with Lowers (had to adapt a pair made for a Wing, but they worked, exceptionally well), soft saddlebags, with a hard trunk on it. We circled Lake Superior on this bike, in 2009... We loved that bike! A year later, we bought our XII, and the Honda sat, neglected, and ignored, until we sold it, in 2012. Saw the Honda CB1200, when it came out: it is a tribute to the legendary CB750's.

modern, bolt-on, aftermarket fairings pale in comparison to the Windjammer, sorry, no comparison, period.

Amen, brother. My Wing came with a Jammer, but it was damaged and soon fell apart. Was really bummed to learn that I couldn\'t replace it. I made a bracket to salvage the windscreen; and this did make the COG even better. (Imagine a naked XII.)

But, it begs the question, why does Honda not build a less expensive alternative to the Wing, using the CB1100 as the base bike?

think that 1200 was generally a disappointment, maybe because of sucky gas mileage. They also had the Valkyrie, presumably after seeing so many folks strip Wings. I presume it didn't sell so well, either. [Edit: okay, I thought you meant the VFR 1200.] There are a lot of 1000cc touring bikes now, generally pretending to be adventure bikes. I'm sure they rip. If I wanted a new bike, I'd look at one of those -- whichever has the most UJM ergos. And then learn to live with less luggage.I'd like to say that Honda screwed up the Wing, but try to explain that to their sales department. They screwed it up by sticking a bunch of touring crap on it, just like you're saying to do with the 1200. In the end, I think the perfect bike remains as elusive as that perfect girlfriend. (For starters, she shouldn't have a bike that's faster than yours.)

[Mr Jensee]

In 2010 Honda almost give you guys your wish with the NT700V. A lighter scaled-down version of the wing that had proved popular in Europe but not so much here. If I had had the money I might never have gotten the Voyager but would have been happy with this lighter bike.

[cbrfxr67]

Love reading me some bike comparisons! I've only had an 00 Electraglide which was slow and I wouldn't want to've taken it touring at all. Still working on Voyager but I have the feeling it'll be sweeeet.

[Nails]

And don't forget the NC's antecedent, the PC800. It has a loyal following, but also kinda weird and low horsepower. (If you want weirdo, there's always the Niken GT.) This post is a reaction to the general sentiment that GoldWings are just too much, and we want to go back to something more sane.
Regarding potential XII replacements, I think we actually have a lot of modern bikes to choose from. Not really my cuppa, but I'd want to at least glance at the sport-tourer market: Connie, Z1000SX Tourer, CBF1000GT, FZ1 (I'd really like to test one of these), Trophy SE, or even H2 SX if you want to get silly. (RIP for some of these.) They all tour, and fast. I think these days adventure just means upright ergos and a tall seat. I want the former and can live with the latter, so I'd want to at least cast a glance here, too. The VFR 1200X Crosstourer seems to be moving closer to what you asked for (I understand Honda is actively developing this); and there are many others. I mean, look at this purely from a touring perspective. https://ridermagazine.com/2019/05/20/20 ... de-review/-- to add to the confusion, he calls it a sport-tourer (and factory hard luggage is available). Yeah, these are a bit afield of the CB750K, and I'm not sure a direct replacement exists. But I think they could fill that touring role just fine, even if they can also put up with a little gravel to boot. Specifically, I'm suggesting that a Versys 1000 SE LT+ or V-Strom 1000 belong on the shortlist. Folks have been touring on them for years, so they must have something going for them. Finally, reflecting on when 750cc was a Big Bike -- there's also a zillion candidates in today's mid-size category. These certainly would out-perform a CB750K in just about any way (especially weight). A standard 650 seems like the closest to a CB750K, if not the 650cc-edition of the Versys and V-Strom again.

[SgtSlag]

Sport touring bikes are designed for one rider, not two. Forget that ridiculous micro-pillion seat. To me, an 1800cc bike is overkill. A 1200cc touring bike fills a sweet-spot. Entirely my opinions. I'm lost in the past. For me, the golden age of motorcycles was the late 1970's to the mid-1980's, with the classic teardrop gas tank designs, and the Vetter Windjammer fairings, and Lowers. Back then, you could build an APJB to your needs. There were some wonderful bikes made back then, by all of the Big-4 Japanese companies. I rode small bikes (65cc) all the way up to a 1200cc (big, back then). I rode naked bikes, I rode bikes with handle-bar mounted windscreens ( ), and those with frame-mounted Windjammers. I rode bikes decked out for touring. My parents toured the mid-west on a 1974 Suzuki Titan T500 two-stroker, with a frame-mounted Vetter knock-off fairing, hard saddlebags, and a rear rack. My wife and I circled Lake Superior, in 2009, riding two-up on a 1979 CB750K, with a Vetter Vindicator (Windjammer variant), Lowers, soft saddlebags, and a hard trunk. We rode 1,935 miles over eight days, in cold rain, every day in Canada. It was miserable at times, but we loved it! We would do it again, in a heartbeat. That 30-year-old bike ran flawlessly, the entire trip. It is one of our greatest, fondest, touring memories, standing far above all others, made on our Voyager. All I can say is, Thank God our Voyager will last many more years! It is fairly close to the classic designs I love, and miss. It is comfortable enough ( vastly more comfortable than the 750 -- vastly!), it is reliable enough, and it is just plain fun to tour on it. She is showing her age (1993 model), but she is still ready and willing to take us anywhere we wish to go -- that is paved. Sorry, I miss my golden-age bikes. They weren't perfect, but they had style, charm, and charisma. Most modern bikes just have hi-tech. Man, am I getting old, or what? I can't stand V-twin engines -- unless it's an Indian. They\'re the only V-twin I can tolerate. The new Kawasaki Voyager leaves me cold. It may be an incredible bike, but to me, it is a Harley-wanna-be. Give me an inline-four every day of the week. That is one of the main reasons I like the idea of building a mid-sized (by today's standards), fully dressed, touring bike, on the modern CB1100 chassis (sadly, the aftermarket parts for building it into a decent touring bike, no longer exist). Until then, I'll keep riding my XII. Cheers!

[Nails]

What's an APJB? When I go on cage trips, I usually pick up a motorcycle mag-rag to read when it's Deanna's turn to drive. With the whole industry apparently on the verge of collapse (the bike journo industry already did), the few that are left standing are mostly from Europe. I recently bought a What Bike? for the 2019 lineups across the pond. Not really much information, but it's good to see everything on offer (in England) in one place. I looked back at that when I wrote my last post. (I have Buyer\'s Guides and the like going back 20 years. The best reviews of any bike are those for that bike's replacement.) I'm quite impressed with many of the new offerings. The manufacturers seem to be working on pretty much everything I think they should, and for the first time, I can't say that they're just bunches of idiots. I want these new bikes, just not enough to actually buy one -- especially since I can get a fine XII for $1000. I definitely can picture myself riding any one of several new bikes, just as I ride my XII, and just as happy doing it. I mean, if you want modern reliability and are ready to buy a new bike, I think the world is your oyster. You just won't find a new XII. (But I do think you can still build one -- there's a lot of aftermarket from all over the world.) I'm arguing that we\'re in a Golden Age right now, even as we and our XIIs are going the way of the dinosaurs.

[SgtSlag]

APJB: All-Purpose Japanese Bike. It was a common comment back in the 1980s. The majority of Japanese motorcycles were all-purpose, in that they could be customized to most riding styles. If you wanted to build a touring bike, you just added a fairing, saddlebags, and a trunk. If you sold the bike, the new owner could strip off what they didn\'t want, sell the parts, and ride it in their preferred style. There were different sizes of fairings available, so you did not have to go with a full-blown Windjammer (there were knock-off brands available, as well) and Lowers (only Vetter offered Lowers, as far as I know), you could even get sporty fairings, to build a cafe racer style. There were nice bikes in every size. Vetter sold their QuickSilver fairing, which was frame-mounted, and built for bikes 400cc, and smaller. Their Windjammer/Vindicator fairings were made for 500cc, and bigger. Lowers were an option which could bolt onto any Windjammer/Vindicator, but they had to be made for each bike, as they were not universal, like the fairings, which used a custom mounting bracket, made for each bike model. Vetter also sold a set of hard saddlebags, and a matching hard Trunk. The company also sold a bolt-in radio module, with front speakers, so you could add a radio to any Windjammer/Vindicator fairing, on any bike. The Windjammer had built-in signal lights which replaced the factory signal lights on stems, attached to the forks. The Vindicator fairing came with its own stems, to move the OEM lights down, out of the way of the fairing; otherwise, the Vindicator was the same as the Windjammer line. The Vetter products came wired, with hook-ups for your particular bike to wire into. It was an out-of-the-box, bolt-on, accessory package. They worked, superbly, and they fit superbly. He was the king of motorcycling, in the 1970s. His company could not keep up with demand. Some people consider them ugly, today, but back then, they were gorgeous, and they made riding very much easier, and so much more comfortable.
Vetter's hard saddlebags were removable, with a carrying handle on them. You could unlock them, and carry them into your motel, if desired; I believe they had pull out liner bags within, like the Voyager XII, a decade later. His hard trunk had additional brake lights, mounted high, for improved visibility, and safety. He was an innovator.<br/>\n<br/>\nI have not seen any modern, frame-mounted, aftermarket fairings. There are plenty of fork-mount windshield kites, but they suck jet exhaust, IMO. In high wind conditions, you're better off parking, and waiting for it to die down, as it will exhaust you, trying to control the handlebars, keeping the bike in proper lane position... Cheers!

[Nails]

APJB: All-Purpose Japanese Bike.

Okay, Universal Japanese Motorcycle.

The majority of Japanese motorcycles were all-purpose, in that they could be customized to most riding styles. I

Which is another way of saying that the big names hadn\'t expanded to fill these niches -- to give people what they actually want right from the factory. I agree that many went all the way, dropping standards altogether. In response to a hue and cry we saw a spate of new nakeds just a couple years ago. Most of these already have been dropped. But all that stuff still exists, only under different names. The best bike example is the Bonneville (T100 or SE), which many have modified and toured just as you say. Or the America if you want to go more like the custom versions of the standards from the 80s. If you\'re totally hung on classic styling, Moto Guzzi is targeting this market; and you won't need any aftermarket with the Norge. Royal Enfield is there, if a 500cc single is enough; or the Triumph Rocket III Touring, if you just can't get enough. The Ural Solo is about as classic as it gets. If you can allow some modern styling, there's the Mana 850 GT or various BMW K models (notably the R1200R Classic). The FZ8 pillion might be cushy enough, or there might be an aftermarket option -- dunno. I could go on.

There were nice bikes in every size.

Even more so now, except the sizes have shifted considerably larger. I didn't even mention standards like the TU 250, which some nut-job would've toured on if available back in the day. But standards don't seem to sell very well, given the horde of more specialized bikes now. Even touring bikes, although I'm sure the manufacturers would say that the consumers are way too fickle. Yes, the Silverwings (but they're too small) or a host of mid-size tourers (but they aren't classic' enough). It's clearly a tough market. The aftermarket is richer than ever, with universal fairings and bags galore. But I don\'t think many folks are willing to fuss with mounting them -- they buy custom-fit bodywork. They choose that because it's available, which it wasn't in the day...

The Vetter products came wired, with hook-ups for your particular bike to wire into... He was an innovator.

...with this notable exception. Dunno why he went out of business. This fickle industry constantly surprises me. I'm sure some of the modern fairings, which look smaller than Jammers, actually perform better. Nowadays, they're all wind-tunnel tested.

I have not seen any modern, frame-mounted, aftermarket fairings.

"Universal ones are sure out there, if you look for them. I once planned (but never actually built) a Dunstall-style fairing on a retro standard (don\'t remember which), thinking of a retro sports-tourer. At the time I found more than one vendor with an incredibly large variety of fairings on offer. There are a zillion universal bag vendors. I can't think of an aftermarket bolt-up fairing, but I bet some exist. There are factory add-on fairings, which might suck the air out of the room for the aftermarket, at least for these most marketable lines. But what I think is going on here is that we have plenty of bikes that already come with a fairing. I still don't think you\'re giving the current market a fair shake. The Honda K's are gone, as is Windjammer. But a lot has taken their place.

[Mr Jensee]

I am sorry but I feel like St.Slag is my brother from another mother. I have more in agreement with him than I do my wife. My love of Japanese bikes was begun with Cycle Guide Magazine from the first time I opened one and fell gaga over The new Yamahas. I had to have one. I was a kid without a job at the time and couldn't figure out how I could come up with $500 to $1000 to purchase one. It might as well have been a fortune. I worked during the summer at my dad's oil field rental place for an amount which was probably below minimum wage. I sweated every day in the heated sun steam clean pressure washing filthy equipment. I was bitten when the office manager's kid rode in on a Kawasaki 65cc one day to get out of the pouring rain. I had to have a motorcycle by hook or crook. At the end of Summer, I was paid $200 for all my aches and pains. Enough to purchase a Wards Riverside 50cc that was on sale. Later by acquiring a newspaper route in my subdivision, I saved up a hundred dollars to through a down payment on a 180cc Yamaha. This was 1968 for all you too young to figure it out, beginning of the great two-stroke motorcycles. So I know what a UJM was. Never desired a Harley. Never really cared for a British bike. For me, it was a UJM. I bought car carriers so I could and did put the Yamaha on the bumper of Dad's 71 Ford Country Squire. I took it anyplace Dad or Mom would let me. Every day then I couldn't wipe the smile off my face. Campgrounds, Grandparents Farm, I took it. Then in 1973, I was bitten by the car bug. By then I was out of school, had paid off the Yamaha and decided to enter the real job market. The CB craze had hit by then and I was into communicating with people I didn't know. The bike sat in the garage unridden. I didn't take up motorcycling again till 1984 when I bought 2 Honda CM200T's. From that point, I always had a motorcycle in my garage. So, Sarge, I can feel your passion even now. I only wish today that my body was up to the desire.

[Nails]

I just offered $100 more than asking for an '85 bike, sight unseen, because I'm in line. Similar to the XII, it wasn't changed until '06. We'll see. There are modern (and superior) alternatives for it, too. But a lot more expensive.

[Edit: It was an '85 KLR 250, low mileage, apparently with only sun and age damage, $700. Wanted it for my daughter, but it looks like I was too late. Oh well. I'll have to refocus my own passion on another bike.]

[Nails]

I got it after all. Whoo-hoo! It's for my 15 y/o daughter, who has thoroughly outgrown her Honda XR80 and could use a moped for college anyway. (We have several square miles of USFS lands right behind us.) Yeppers, I'm taking it upon myself to corrupt the next generation. Maybe she'll inherit my XII -- and what would do to the order of the universe? This is one UGLY bike. What could be better?

UglyKLR.jpg

[Edit: I had these dates all balled up, but I think I have it right now. It happens.] So yeah, you guys can reminisce about your first time bikes, but the passion can live on even as the screw turns. There's a straight line between my first bike (a brand new 1978 Suzuki SP370, bought in the Navy after mom couldn't say no), through my 1974 Husky CR360 (which I bought from a Navy fighter pilot, and I motocrossed on), to this 1985 KLR250 (for a kid who already has the passion, too) -- CB750K's notwithstanding. It's all good.