No OD light/No Cruise Control

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

I sent a message to Carl, but not sure whether he is completely retired and not doing troubleshooting anymore with members- if so, he is well deserving of that retirement.

The following is what I mentioned to Carl:

My OD light quit working as well as my cruise control could not be turned on. I thought I read somewhere that if the OD light is burned out, the CC will not work. So I tore everything down to the instrument panel and replaced the OD bulb- it still won't light. So I checked the socket, and both sides are hot. It appears the orange/white wire goes to the OD/Neutral switch on the engine, I'm not sure where the brown wire goes (is it a ground?), and at this point don't know whether the OD lights works when the circuit is completed and sends juice thru the orange/white wire, or it is always hot, and when the switch is tripped, it grounds the circuit. As I said, both sides are hot. Is it possible the switch is somehow internally shorted and causing the problem, or is there something else I need to check?

Anybody have any ideas on how this switch works, or what the problem may be?

[triton28]

The Brown is 12V power; the Orange/White goes to a white plastic connector on the LH side of the frame around the expansion tank area. The O/W wire then becomes a Black wire which is part of the sub-harness to the side stand/oil pressure/neutral and OD switch area. an additional O/W wire also comes from the CC computer as well as the OD light socket. Both of those demands require the O/W wire to complete a closed circuit through the 2 piece Bk wire going to the OD switch..
The actual OD switch connection is a large brass ring having a crimp sleeve as part of it. It is mounted under the Neutral/OD switch assembly against the aluminium case. The Black wire I spoke of earlier has a Female bullet connector and is connected to a short Bk wire pigtail which is crimped to and forms part of the OD switch brass ring, having a male bullet connector on the end. This explains my reference to a "2 piece wire". Check this wire and make sure it is connected and clean and make sure all the Bk wires aren't broken/disconnected.
The OD switch itself normally doesn't malfunction, it's usually the wiring.
Note for anyone thinking of changing the OD bulb to LED, when I changed my OD bulb to LED none of the CC worked. Once I went back to a high resistance tungsten filament T10 bulb all was good again.
I hope this is of some help,
Dave

[Nails]

Dave, I sure wish I had a copy of your dynamic harness program! For the crack, please don't go anywhere.

[triton28]

No nails I won't be going anywhere.
EDIT: "It is mounted under the Neutral/OD switch assembly against the aluminium case." This should read "against a black nylon insert which threads into the aluminium case". The insert isolates the brass ring until 5th gear grounds it.
Dave

[ekap1200]

hey triton28 , don't the wires coming from the ( nutral/oil-pres/cc ) also run with the alt harness ? I think there is another plug from that to the plug above the carb. ?/ Could it be so easy as a bad connection from a plug that is rarely pulled apart and plugged back in. ?
Just a thought.
gene

[sheiserman]

I sent a message to Carl, but not sure whether he is completely retired and not doing troubleshooting anymore with members- if so, he is well deserving of that retirement.

The following is what I mentioned to Carl:

My OD light quit working as well as my cruise control could not be turned on. I thought I read somewhere that if the OD light is burned out, the CC will not work. So I tore everything down to the instrument panel and replaced the OD bulb- it still won't light. So I checked the socket, and both sides are hot. It appears the orange/white wire goes to the OD/Neutral switch on the engine, I'm not sure where the brown wire goes (is it a ground?), and at this point don't know whether the OD lights works when the circuit is completed and sends juice thru the orange/white wire, or it is always hot, and when the switch is tripped, it grounds the circuit. As I said, both sides are hot. Is it possible the switch is somehow internally shorted and causing the problem, or is there something else I need to check?

Anybody have any ideas on how this switch works, or what the problem may be?

Years ago I had a problem similar to yours. MY OD light would flicker and of course the cruise would cancel. It wasn't necessarily road conditions, it would just randomly flicker...a lot. So I called Carl and told him the same sad tale I just repeated here. What he had me do was find the two wires running down to the OD switch. If I am remembering correctly, one is black, and one is black with a stripe (don't remember the color the stripe). He had me cut the black wire, and run it directly to ground instead of the switch.

He advised the OD light would be on all the time, but cruise would work. He was correct. It doesn't bother me in the least that the OD light is on all the time, and I haven't had trouble with cruise since then, which was around 6 years ago. I believe I have all the details right. My bike is buried right now, so I can't verify one particular. That would be which wire I cut, and I am 99% sure it was the solid black wire. Carl's explanation (again, as I remember it) was that there is a brass "switch" or some such thing that was sitting in the bottom of the oil pan now which is why I was having trouble. He said it wouldn't hurt anything and that what I did would be easier and cheaper than replacing the part that was no longer working.

Hope this helps.

[ekap1200]

Hello again Dave, I just came back in from the shop. brought the book in. Could one , using just a 12v test light , go from B+ to the O/D brass ring and check the switch , in 5th, for it to be going to B- ( ground ). Having to start from at least one known switch/action.
I have the - ZG1200-B14 Supplement showing the C/C system. Much smaller text that the main manual..
from what I can see the O/D swtich grounds ; BOTH the lamp and to the ( orange/white ) wire connection at the cc-unit .
If it where me that is where I would start. And a good known O/D Lamp .
Gene Kap

[triton28]

Yes Gene the harness I spoke of does run parallel to the alternator harness. If I remember correctly they meet around the lower airbox drain bottle.
And yes you are correct in your test light sequence, the test bulb should light in 5th gear, with the battery installed with the negative connected as per normal installation of course, indicating that at least the switch is functioning as intended. If the bulb does not light then the diagnosis outlined by Scott in frozen Iowa may be the problem, that being the brass rotor on the end of the shift change drum is for some reason not contacting, via the neutral switch housing, to the brass ring and completing the ground circuit.
My money is on the wiring in most instances.

[Nails]

Okay, I don't think what I say below actually advances any understanding of this -- I'm just noting some similarities.

He had me cut the black wire, and run it directly to ground instead of the switch.

My CC also occasionally cuts out. It isn't anything on the "cancel" circuits because I can't "reset" it -- I have to start over turning it off-and-on and re-setting it. Rarely, that doesn't even work, so I installed a VistaCruise in case it totally dies. I used to carry a spare CC module, but the problem is so rare and transitory that I don't anymore. I don't think that was the culprit anyway.

I defeated my OD switch so that I could set the CC in any gear. (Barry described it somewhere here. Involves grounding a wire near the CC module.) As I recall, the OD light still tells me whether I have any more gears, I just don't need to be in 5th to set the CC. (But this doesn't work as well as I had hoped because the CC doesn't like speeds under about 45, anyway.)

Two things I can say for certain: the CC circuitry is complicated; and some of those switches go bad over time.

[triton28]

Kawboy;
Even with all the CC equipment removed/disconnected the OD light should function. By grounding the Black wire/key on/any gear a known good bulb should illuminate. If it doesn't check the wiring to the point of grounding.
As Gene posted you can test the OD switch itself with a test light.
As to the CC not even turning on, perhaps it is just coincidental to the bulb problem and may be the CC relay or the CC On Button malfunctioning. These can be checked as you probably already know with your multimeter. If they check out OK then I would check each and every plastic connector as time can corrode the brass terminals and simply removing and reconnecting them sometimes does the trick. The last item would be the CC module itself, hopefully not this though. Sorry I can't be of more help,
Dave

[ekap1200]

I sent a message to Carl, but not sure whether he is completely retired and not doing troubleshooting anymore with members- if so, he is well deserving of that retirement.

The following is what I mentioned to Carl:

My OD light quit working as well as my cruise control could not be turned on. I thought I read somewhere that if the OD light is burned out, the CC will not work. So I tore everything down to the instrument panel and replaced the OD bulb- it still won't light. So I checked the socket, and both sides are hot. It appears the orange/white wire goes to the OD/Neutral switch on the engine, I'm not sure where the brown wire goes (is it a ground?), and at this point don't know whether the OD lights works when the circuit is completed and sends juice thru the orange/white wire, or it is always hot, and when the switch is tripped, it grounds the circuit. As I said, both sides are hot. Is it possible the switch is somehow internally shorted and causing the problem, or is there something else I need to check?

Anybody have any ideas on how this switch works, or what the problem may be?

Hi Gary. I think I have an answer to why your seeing both sides of the lamp socket at 12v +. From the B14 wiring diagram it shows b+ going to the lamp on one side. The other side that goes to the grounding switch also goes to the cruse control module. So when you have the lamp out one side is b+ and the other side is a hot wire coming from the c/c module looking to see ground when the switch goes to ground. So you have two items that are looking for ground on that side of the circuit.

How did you make out testing the 5th gear switch ?

Gene Kap

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

Hi everyone! Thanks for all your responses, now to let you know what the problem was:

I did contact Carl, and as usual, that guy is a wealth of information and experience. I tested the bulb with a new one, and as I may have mentioned before, it wasn't the bulb. Then of course, I seen the hot on both sides of the socket. Since then, with the help of Carl, and a little of what I suspected, the OD light works by when in fifth gear, the switch grounds that O/W wire (which starts as black at the engine switch)- then the light will light, and this also grounds the circuit to activate the cruise control. However, it was not in the wiring, but the what I think according to the parts diagram is a small flat piece of steel with a tab on it that is screwed onto the end of the shift drum. That tab, when in fifth, activates the OD/Neutral switch to ground the OD and CC circuit. The problem is Carl strongly suspected that tab had broken off and no longer would activate that switch. Since all other tests were positive in working, I have no reason to suspect otherwise. To replace that $5 tab would involve removing the back tire and driveshaft and possibly the what I think is the starter motor, and the bevel drive case. A lot to do to just fix the OD light, so it was decided to just ground that black wire which normally would have the OD light on all the time, but since I already had it so I could get to that, I'll just leave the bulb out. The CC will still turn on without the bulb, and I won't have that bulb on all the time. Problem solved. Now to just get it all back together again!