Starts Normally, May or May Not have Lights

[DocSnowFox]

Hello.
I have searched diligently through ALL posts for Ignition Switch issues, starts but no lights, Broken Wires, Zip Ties too tight breaking wires, etc., and have found nothing similar enough to my issue.
Even before I added a Positive and a Negative Buss Bar to my 1995 Voyager, there was a guessing game about whether all the lights would come on once started, or none of them would be on.
When bike is cold, starting up is more likely to have all the normal running lights to come on. But after it has warmed up some, and then shut off the engine (a riding stop somewhere), then restart, ...the restart is fine but all of the running lights and headlight will not come on. The secret is to keep shutting off and restart, until they all come back on and stay on.
I have thoroughly checked the main harness connectors, and verified nothing is loose. And the battery is new, good voltage.
If no lights show upon a start, then I keep shutting it off, and restart until the lights all come on. Then everything stays fine.

The issues isn't a connector problem, they all seem to be tight and snug, and the ones I've separated to check the contacts, there is no visible corrosion inside any connectors.
If I knew where the ignition Relay was, I'd do the "baby rattle" test, and see if that is the culprit.

Anyone have some additional clues or ideas?
Thank you in advance.
Christopher

[triton28]

Sounds to me as though the headlight relay may be going. It is the relay having the 2 Red/Blue wires and one each of Black/White and Yellow/Blue wires going to it.
Dave

[VoyKimmer]

I had the exact same problem on my 96. Cut out 10 pin connector and soldered and heat shrink all 10 wires and never an electrical problem in 8 years.

[Nails]

I would also check the starter circuit relay. These (Main, Starter Circuit, and Headlight) are side-by-side under the left fairing. These are related in a complicated schematic.

As another active thread here mentions, you can get a Toyota relay for cheap (see Dollar-for-Dollar). I'd recommend swapping-in a new relay to see if that diagnoses and fixes it. Or work through the schematic if you like that kind of thing/headache. But either way, if swapping doesn't do anything, then you still have a spare relay (I'd carry it). And if it does fix it, then buy another for your spare.

[cranky]

.. is the Voyager line of scoots like the Vulcan, in that whey ya start
it, the stator output pics the headlight relay, and if ya have a weak stator,
sometimes it won't do that... had it happen on my Nomad...

[DocSnowFox]

Well thanks for the inputs.
The headlight has a new LED with a manufacturer's "canbus" that has stabilized the flickering. However, this all lights out or on began well before I swapped headlight bulbs. The new LED is excellent now (SEE company).

Thank you triton28, VoyKimmer, cranky and Nails.

As for stator, that's a maybe. AVA recommended the MG (Morton Grove) Auto Electric company now in nearby Arlington Heights, IL, for a stator/alternator upgrade of 35 amp output to 55amps. At a phone quote potential of $185, that will be a decision to make here soon.

I can certainly do the Toyota Relay swap and try that, as a simple trial, and I can handle the 10 connector to direct solder joints and heat shrinking the solders.
And, the details of the schematics, doesn't phase me any. I am comfortable with schematics, blueprints and wiring diagrams. NP.

So, I'll get these on my calendar for next week and see what comes of it.
Thank you all.
I'll report back. The Alternator will be a while into July. Not ready to give up a week or two of Voyager riding for the duration turn around on that. I have an out of state trip planned without the bike in early July, so can take it down, during that time.

I appreciate the wisdom and history, very much!

[DocSnowFox]

Where oh where are the three Main relays (Main, Ignition and Headlight) in or under these pics?

[DocSnowFox]

or in or under this more forward pic

[DocSnowFox]

The replacement Ignition Relay is pictured here. I cannot find anything even similar to this under the Left Upper Fairing, nor the other two relays, being the Main and the Headlight relays.

Help?

[DocSnowFox]

WAIT!!!
Are these three capped (inside rubber boots) the elusive three Main Relays?...the Main, the Starter (Ignition) and Headlight Relays?
These are under the Left side of the faux (fake) tank, not under the Left (upper) Fairing

[triton28]

See illustrations on page 15-42 and 15-43 of the service manual. Both show the three pack, rubber encased, relay locations. Note that 15-43 is labelled "Diode assembly" but one can see the three pack in the illustration. Your second "more forward pic" shows the 3 pack in the upper LH corner of the photo Blue and Yellow wires showing up in the photo.
Your last photo is the starter relay and it's position is just below the LH side of the battery box.
To determine which relay is which, use the wire colours on a particular relay and compare the colours to the electrical schematic at the first part of Chapter 15.
Yes you found three so far/
Dave

[DocSnowFox]

Dave,
Thank you for your reply and rewarding response/ info.

I am not at home and don't have my Service Manual here with me... mistakenly left it at home reading through schematics last night... until I fell asleep at the wheel (65 hour work week).
So per this long Post, the 3-pack of relays above the headlight, under the split of the Left and Right Upper side fairings, is the elusive 3-pack I need for the diagnosis of my intermittent all lights on, or no lights on issue.
Or instead this issue is tied to the Starter Relay, acting as the Low Voltage Reduction circuit (drops out lights and other circuit draws to permit best Amps to starter needs).
Do I have this figured out correctly?
My issue is more than likely the Starter Relay, left of the battery box?

[Nails]

These are under the Left side of the faux (fake) tank, not under the Left (upper) Fairing

My bad. Last time I was in there, I had the fairing and tank off.

[DocSnowFox]

Nails
No biggie. You mentors in here are both excellent and refreshing help!

I am learning very specific electrical details, and I enjoy electrical troubleshooting and customizing upgrades.
In a couple weeks I will consolidate my remote rental Voyager storage room into a custom enclosed trailer at home, and these efforts should be less difficult.
In the meantime I find I shuffle resources and like now, forgot my Service book and schematics.
Apparently the Starter Relay i bought (pic) isn't correct.
I just need the wire colors to further identify and replace the likely faulty Starter Relay.

[Nails]

If you're in there anyway, I recommend a couple upgrades, all of which can be found in more detail with Search:

• Add a toggle SP/ST switch to defeat the starter relay. When defeated, you can pump up the carburetor float bowls. When you hear the pump stop, then flip the switch and start the bike -- without wasting amps just to get fuel flowing.

• Add chassis grounds, especially a new one right off the negative post to the chassis near the airbox. I added several new ground wires under the left fairing, including a new wire that ran straight to the negative post. (Yeah, it's a spaghetti-like stack of grounds. But for a good cause.)

• Consider defeating the 5th-gear switch on the cruise control, so that you can engage cruise in 4th if you want.

[DocSnowFox]

Nails ,

Great advice/recommendations!

I have already done some of this with custom Buss bars added, both the Negative as you recommend, AND Positive too. To eliminate the binding and bungling on battery posts.
It's worked very well and it's a clean and organized run of spaghetti. Also I increased wired gauge to #10Ga, to reduce resistance due to light Gauge wiring.

Best regards...

[triton28]

Headlight relay: 2 X Red/Blue on 1 side of the relay and Black/White, Yellow/Blue on other.
Starter CIRCUIT relay: Bk/W and Bk on 1 side of the relay and BK, Y/G on the other.
Starter MOTOR relay: Bk/Y and Bk/W.
Accessory relay: 2 X W/Y on 1 side of the relay and Bl/W, Bk/Y on the other. I use this relay as a test relay when needed.
Don't forget that very short Yellow wire, on the power cable to the starter motor from the MOTOR relay. It needs to be in the circuit, through the diode whereupon it changes wire colour to Y/Bl and goes to the headlight relay.
The SP/ST switch works perfectly to duplicate the 1986 and 87 internal wiring which fills the floats with fuel before engaging the starter.
Dave

[Nails]

Not a word about that wizz-bang schematics app.

[DocSnowFox]

Triton28 /Dave,
Thank you very much!
I stayed up late last night until I could find a Service Manual from Korea, and bought it. My Owner's Manual doesn't have that, and the Service Manual I've been using as a download for past 8 years or so, was such poor quality (was free) that I could not zoom in and be able to read wire color codes. So now I have a perfect Service Manual (.pdf) and can read all I need. And print to use side by side on the Voyager.
With your notes.

Nails. No further comments (from me) about whiz-bang apps. Very funny!

So now I need to locate a source TODAY for the correct relays in the rubber boots. On a Sunday. Not very likely here in Northern Illinois. But I'm looking around and going to recheck that "Dollar for Dollar" post.

Thanks all!

[Nails]

See the references to a Toyota part number. And then swing by any open auto parts store. Use Search, or look in Dollar-for-Dollar for the cross-reference.