Starts Normally, May or May Not have Lights

[DocSnowFox]

Nails
I did just that.

The Toyota Relay cross- reference is #41-5002.
The Kawasaki OEM P/N is #27002-1051.
However my region in Northern Illinois numerous parts stores failed miserably to match, granted its a Sunday.
I found one in a distant NAPA store and went after it. $15.
I'll include a picture for someone else to submit to the Dollar4Dollar section.
This NAPA had numerous cross-referenced possibilities, but knowing I need a 4-pin/blade relay made it all connect.
NAPA P/N is AR355.
There! All three P/Ns in one place.

[DocSnowFox]

Nails or triton28

Is there a trick, or maneuver to removing the 3 Musketeer relays (3 in the same conjoined 3-pack of rubber boots) below the battery?
Seems info and schematics prove from left to right while facing them (or front to rear) these three relays are:
Front= Accessory Relay
Middle= Starter Circuit Relay
Rear= Headlight Relay.

There! I have not yet seen these identified by position (yet)...
Anyways, how to remove the 3- pack altogether, or one at a time? I have 4 relays so I am prepared, but I don't ever recommend pulling by the wires
Thanks,

[DocSnowFox]

Answer to releasing these very important Relays is to firmly grasp the rubber boot in one rubber gloved hand, and needle-nose pliers grasp the square "box" of the Relay, ...(wires go in)
and wiggle like crazy until a little at a time the Relay loosens and drops out of the tight rubber boot.
Whew!
Success!
Thanks.

[Nails]

Yeppers. You basically need a bigger hammer.

[DocSnowFox]

Ha Ha!
With velvet finesse.
Thanx!

[DocSnowFox]

Picture of the diagnosed and failed OEM original Starter Circuit Relay (freshly exhumed from its rubber boot origin. )

[DocSnowFox]

Dear AVA Gurus,
Per the attached picture and lots of serious digging into the Service Manual, I have acquired info that 3 of the 4 Relays under the midline of the Upper Fairing are identified. Page 15-42 & 15-43 shows only 3 Relays (Service Manual says was printed in 1987).
The 3 are (orientation standard, sitting on bike):
Right- Fan relay
Middle- Brake Light relay
Left- Accessory

So what is the existing 4th Relay? On my 1995 Voyager.
Thanx

[triton28]

Your manual if it is the supplemental edition will state on the cover Motorcycle Service Manual "Supplement". So using the circuit diagram of a "Supplement", regardless of where one is sitting, from left to right, left being under the Philips head fairing screw, the relays are shown as follows: Accessory; Brake light; Cruise Control and farthest to the right of the photo is the radiator Fan relay.

[DocSnowFox]

triton28,

Thank you for identifying the front 4 Relays!
Than you very much.

As a General work item I have found that a step I've used for removing heat shrink rubber Buddy Bearing dust boot covers, a heat gun or blow dryer gun, to pre-heat the very tight Relay rubber boots, heating each about 2-3 minutes gently, makes them much more pliable and with wearing thin rubber mechanic's gloves, can easily wiggle the Relays out of the boots without any threat of tearing.
A little time, no stress or worry. Worked to remove all 3 Main Relays, Left side of battery. And then pre-heat again to install the new ones.

[DocSnowFox]

Are there additional fuses beyond the Main fuse box up top?
I've replaced the three Main Relays (Main, Ignition, Headlight), cleaned up corroded three connectors just downstream of relay harness (5pin, 3pin and 2pin), applied very good grade Dielectric grease, installed new AGM Battery (old no power), and suddenly have No Lights, none. Only illumination on backlighting on radio, otherwise nothing. No running lights, no nothing. Main fuses all fine.
Puzzled.

[ekap1200]

Are there additional fuses beyond the Main fuse box up top?
I've replaced the three Main Relays (Main, Ignition, Headlight), cleaned up corroded three connectors just downstream of relay harness (5pin, 3pin and 2pin), applied very good grade Dielectric grease, installed new AGM Battery (old no power), and suddenly have No Lights, none. Only illumination on backlighting on radio, otherwise nothing. No running lights, no nothing. Main fuses all fine.
Puzzled.

the 10 pin connector to the fuse box may be your issue !

[DocSnowFox]

ekap1200,
The Notorious 10-pin connector is inline and near/ routes the Fuse box?

[Nails]

and suddenly have No Lights, none. Only illumination on backlighting on radio, otherwise nothing. No running lights, no nothing. Main fuses all fine.

So you have electrical power, just no lights. Do the oil and neutral lights come on? Will it start? If not, I suspect a problem with the ignition switch or harness.

[DocSnowFox]

"So you have electrical power, just no lights. Do the oil and neutral lights come on? Will it start? If not, I suspect a problem with the ignition switch or harness.".

Yes have electrical power (new AGM battery last night), no lights on anything except backlighting on radio. Starts immediately... like it's brand new. Yes power to typical dash lights like Neutral and Oil. Radio has power, horn and direct-powered accessories (to battery or via new accessory relays).
Just ZERO for any other lights or lighting.
ALL FUSES in Main Fuse Box checked fine for continuity.
Tonight (after I get home from work), I will backtrack the Notorius 10-pin connector from the Main Fuse Box, and check it out. I've never had a reason before now.
ekap1200 suggested the [Notorius] 10-pin connector.

Thanks!

[Nails]

The lights normally don't work until the bike starts. I'm suggesting that you get intimate with that part of the schematic.

I'm hesitant to jump into it because that high puke-factor reading is bad for my brain. (I certainly DO NOT have the wizz-bang schematic app, like DAVE does.) But I think there's indeed a relay involved in switching the lights on.

[triton28]

I just fired up the Whiz bang app and it printed out an action card which suggested the Yellow wire on the solenoid end of the starter cable may be disconnected/corroded. This Yellow wire goes through the diode and becomes a Yellow/Blue coloured wire and is what momentarily energizes the headlight relay coil circuit to power all the running lights from the now closed switch circuit of the relay. After the start button is released the relay is self powering using a loop of the Red/Blue wire from the newly closed switch circuit back through the diode and becomes another Yellow/Blue power wire to keep the relay coil circuit closed after disengaging the starter button.
The Red/Blue coloured wire is the key to your problem and it may be that it is corroded, as ekap 1200 posted, in the terrible ten connector just down from the fuse block. Only question I have, and it just a question as I am no electrical engineer, is that if there was a problem with the Red/Blue wire in the terrible ten one should still have lights so long as the starter button was in use, wouldn't one?
Now this is conjecture on my part here but I would guess if one was to disconnect the starter end of the cable running between the solenoid to the starter, and prevent grounding of the starter cable of course, one could then engage the starter button without the engine starting and see if the lights then worked so long as the starter button was pressed. If no lights then I would suspect relay connections: if lights worked then it would probably be the terrible ten connector.
If you are sure of your connections to the relay terminals, and you have looked at section 15-42 about relays, then apart from the Yellow wire and/or the terrible ten there can't be much else to look for, but, these are older wiring harnesses and sometimes movement causes something else as well as the original problem to show up. Sorry I can't be of more help but I would check the Y wire, the diode connections and the R/Bl at the terrible ten. Good luck,
Dave

ps; to all the schematic reading junkies out there, did anyone catch the fact that the headlight diode assembly for a 1986 model is only 2 diodes and for the '87 to '03 it has 3 diodes.

[Nails]

Sounds much like the weirdness in keeping the cruise control on. I wonder if that guy went on to work for Lucas.

[Nails]

ps; to all the schematic reading junkies out there, did anyone catch the fact that the headlight diode assembly for a 1986 model is only 2 diodes and for the '87 to '03 it has 3 diodes.

Heck no. But one of the diodes is for the cruise control.

[DocSnowFox]

Thanks again to triton28, ekap1200 and Nails. triton28 great work on your discussion!... which I will dig into tonight after work. Went to the bike after a much needed couple of adult beverages and "time out" with wife and close friends and social distancing last night after work Dug through the upstream harness from Main Fuse Box and found the Terrible Ten Pin connector.
How in the world to work on that deep in the belly of the beast? No easy endeavor.
I will take a longer look this evening for corrosion there and the diode pack.
Thanks friends!

[GrandpaDenny]

ps; to all the schematic reading junkies out there, did anyone catch the fact that the headlight diode assembly for a 1986 model is only 2 diodes and for the '87 to '03 it has 3 diodes.

Heck no. But one of the diodes is for the cruise control.

That makes sense, since the cruise wasn't available till '87.