What would a new KV look like?

[KPAX]

Here I am getting ready to watch the French MotoGp. I can't help but wonder how Kawasaki would fair in MotoGP given thier outstanding results in World Supebike.

But what if Kawasaki decided to revamp the Voyager? What if the Japanese manufacturers dropped the copy-cat theme and went back to thier roots? Yamaha could resurrect the V-Max V4; now that it is 1,700 cc it would make a great touring motor, it could be specifically tuned for it. Suzuki, well they've been out of the game for a loooong time. Honda has always maintained originality with the Goldwing (that could incite debate).

The ZX-14 / Concours 14 motor is a perfect platform for a new Voyager. It is a shaftie, it is very reliable and has oodles of power and personality. It is a balance shaft motor (maybe it needs a 2nd?). I think the only obstacle might be that it is a shim under bucket motor (is it an obstacle?) Maybe Kawi can retrofit hydraulic lifters into the head?

Kawasaki is really pushing the envelope by creating the H2R line; they definitely have brand identity. I am pretty sure the big ZX-14 motor will be replaced by the H2R powertrain. So where does it leave that motor? Can the ZX-14 motor meet euro 5 regs?

This is the time for Kawasaki to take the lead in touring bikes, thier only competition is Honda and BMW. There is an open spot for a big powerful in-line 4. Consumer tastes are shifting, big V-twins with 45 lbs crankshafts are loosing favour among buyers. Kawasaki should be taking aim at the bright new future of touring motorcycles.

[Nails]

Caveat: I'm not really interested in any new bike. But if I were, I see tons that are easily made suitable for superslab touring.

> Kawasaki should be taking aim at the bright new future of touring motorcycles.

Modern bikes generally are getting better and better at touring -- all of them encroaching on more dedicated tourers. These days, lots of bikes come with cruise control and some sort of fairing and luggage. I'm suggesting that there are market forces against piggly touring bikes, whether HD or otherwise. The market seems headed for multi-role bikes, whether oriented toward sports, ADV, or grocery-getters.

> I am pretty sure the big ZX-14 motor will be replaced by the H2R powertrain.

I suppose, if you if you drink the forced-injection koolaid. And Kawa pretty-much already has that: "The 2020 Kawasaki Ninja H2 SX SE+ is the company’s supercharged sport-touring machine." They have a crap-ton of other STs: Ninja 1000SX ("It seamlessly combines sport riding and touring capability"), ZX-14R (lots of folks tour on them), several Versys models, zillions of cruisers (of course), and a whole lineup of "standards" (many much like the first-gen CB750 of yore -- but many more that don't fit my understanding of "standard").

Folks here have waxed poetic about their Honda 750s, presumably for the upright ergos, light weight, short frames, and aftermarket tour amenities. I think lots of modern bikes fit that prescription to a Tee. (Well, I think some folks have a similar nostalgic feelings about the first car they got laid in.)

These are happy days for buyer's choice. I'm having trouble seeing that "bright new future of touring motorcycles" quite the same way you do. Specifically, H2 power in a piggly touring bike seems like a narrow niche to me. But what do I know -- the KTM 1290 Super Adventure R seems silly to me, also; but my neighbor does everything on his including touring. (He's an ex-cop certified to train other motorcycle cops.)

"Back to their roots" sounds like UJM ergos, which is a good place to start adding luggage and weather protection. I question how much appetite there is for the difference between that (what I consider a "standard") and a dedicated touring bike.

But this is just a projection of my own values. I've been going the other way, making my XII lighter, simpler, more nimble, and generally a little better for running errands: i.e., more like a "standard". Less is more. If I had any sustained interest in a sportbike, my new garage has room for a Connie. But honestly, the sit-up-and-beg XII ergos is what I like best about it. I think the XII is a good, cheap platform to remove superfluous crap; and I don't suffer any lust for the latest/greatest.

To put it another way, as much as I'm impressed by MawKaw's 2020 lineup, I don't see anything that I really want more than my modified XII. And eventually I'll surely get all misty-eyed nostalgic telling listen-here-sonny about my old XII ... and my old MG (for reasons I don't think I need to go into right now).

[KPAX]

The bright new future of touring motorcycles is in reference to the class Honda and BMW created with thier Goldwing and GTL 1600. It's alive and doing well.

[GrandpaDenny]

The reason why Kawi went with a V-twin for the 1700 Voyager is because of emissions. They couldn't get an inline-4 to pass emissions. I believe it may have had something to do with fuel economy as well. Sorry I don't remember where I read that.

[Nails]

The bright new future of touring motorcycles is in reference to the class Honda and BMW created with thier Goldwing and GTL 1600. It's alive and doing well.

Okay, "flagship" tour bikes. Yes, it seems like most manufacturers have quit chasing that unicorn, maybe because Honda so thoroughly cornered that market. When the 1600 Beemers came out, I was surprised that the journo reviewers generally stuck with GW. I haven't followed it since and didn't even know the GTL was all that successful. (The last review I read said the GT was way more fun.)

These days, I'd be hard pressed to identify the "flagship" of just about any brand -- I guess I'd look for the most expensive bike they offer. Maybe it's one of Kawa's H2s, as you say. So yeah, I guess I could see trying to bring a LazyLounger H2 version as an alternative to an ST -- to go head-to-head against the GW/GTL.

But Kawa already built the XII to go head-to-head with the GW. We see how that turned out: now we can get more bike in an XII than GW, cheaper.

The ADV market might offer some hints. BMW struck gold with the GS; and followers-on seem to have had difficulty breaking anything else loose. Lately, it seems like the best bets are going to "purer" dirt bikes -- as opposed to a bunch of electronic crap (as some brands have tried). I don't think the sport-bikes that have morphed into ADV (like BMW S1000XR) have done very well.

I can understand second thoughts jumping in with a new, expensive battleship tour bike. Is the market really that strong? (Maybe folks would buy some new Kawa wanna-be just because it's different -- I almost bought a Cavalcade for that very reason. But I don't think that alone would come anywhere near the cost involved in bringing it to market.)

I really have no idea how they market and sell these GW/GTL beasts. So I'll shut up.

Waiting for Trident Dave to share his wisdom regarding bike marketing.

[triton28]

Hello Nails;
if it's me you are waiting for marketing wisdom from you won't get any current model knowledge out of my recent exposure to makes/models. 1978 was the last time I was involved in the sales/service motorcycle industry, having owned a Harley/Suzuki/Honda dealership.
That having been said though, back then I garnered a great liking for the inline 4 cylinder power plants which i still enjoy to this day every time I roll onto the throttle of my XII, feel the smooth power and hear that great sound from the Cobra mufflers.
I remember when the GL1000 came out and I was the road test driver for all the GWs sold through our shop. My first ride I remember thinking how strange the power was transmitted to the wheels and how smooth the ride was except for the fetch of the rear tire when one rolled off of the throttle quickly. It was as though I was riding on a long road made of cotton wool, nice but uneventful. Not at all like the CB750s I drove every day; they had some growl and still felt as though one was truly riding on machinery.
After a few years of driving both I still preferred the inline 4 over the flat four as I came to realize that Honda's Goldwing was a new incarnation of their 50cc step through concept: eliminate the gritty, mechanical side of motorcycling and make the rider's experience more car like: smooth.
Now I don't know about anyone else but for me the inline has always been a better package than the GW boxer layout. IMHO servicing is easier; foot positioning is better, handling is more nimble and overall the inline 4s are more fun to drive.
I am totally ignorant about any of the features or traits of the current marketplace although I must admit I do have an interest in the "Adventure" models such as the Versys and the Africa Twin. Those, as well as models from the other manufacturers, seem to be a common sense idea for those who venture, no pun to Yamaha here, on the less than super slab roadways, ie the gravel ribbons of the truly rural areas of North America.
But enough of the ramblings of a retro old man, back to the post at hand. I agree with you it would be nice to see a new Kawi inline 4 touring model debut for the marketplace still young enough to go out and buy one. Back in 2012 when I started to set up my own personal "Last motorcycle ever" shop complete with spares inventory and equipment to rebuild any part needing service I began my search for a familiar to me "Touring" motorcycle, never having owned a dedicated touring bike. Since I had driven hundreds of GWs I started with them. Next I investigated the Yamaha Venture and then the Suzuki Cavalcade. And the ZN1300 came into view and it was love at first ride. But with more research I realized the minor number of ZNs produced and knew the spares would be the main problem so I then investigated the ZG1200 and it fitted the bill perfectly. It brought me back to the time of the SOHC CB750s when things were simpler. So I hitched my horse to the Voyager XII wagon and the rest is history, or perhaps herstory.
regards,
Dave
Any more than this and I would be putting forth opinions I would have to admit would be not founded on fact.

[cranky]

... + a gazillion on the smoothness and even power of the inline 4. Drove Kaw
Vulcan for years and my XII is a really big stop up, IMHO..

[HMB Don]

Kawasaki and Moto GP? It would take 5 years to begin winning so makaw won't enter.

For touring in line 4 and no larger than 1300 cc, 120 hp. Frame with single shock like the first Connie's. Fuel tank under the seat. Big front brakes, weight 800 lbs and include a center stand.

The BMW 1600, has to much power, 160 hp and eats rear tires. The cost to adjust valves is more then most riders pay for a used bike.

[KPAX]

That sounds like a great recipe HMB Don.

[Nails]

For touring in line 4 and no larger than 1300 cc, 120 hp. Frame with single shock like the first Connie's. Fuel tank under the seat. Big front brakes, weight 800 lbs and include a center stand.

I would say "800 lbs or less". Or likely even less than that.

So, going the other way from my first post: If we made a list of all current models like that, it'd be pretty long. I could cull any that don't have upright ergos. Then any that don't have a desired level of weather protection and luggage (factory or aftermarket). It'd still be a long list. Now add in all kinds of preferences: pillion-friendly?, gravel-friendly?, sips gas?, whatever.

A dedicated tourer might have more wind-tunnel and noise testing, and you wouldn't have to worry about everything fitting together just right. I can see benefit in that. But I can also see benefit to getting exactly what you want -- and no more!

I still think today's buyers have a lot of great choices available. But sure, a new tourer from Kawa? Why not?

[Nails]

if it's me you are waiting for

Okay, Triton sometimes carried a trident. Got it!

[cranky]

Hey Nails!!! Just installed a Clearview 19" shield, with the vent installed!!!!
@250, IIRC.. really need more riding time to test, but I think the vent is
gonna help!!! Cuts the vacuum created by the shield by adding air!!!
I new have a nice pocket and my cheap helmet doesn't rattle at me!!!
GBG Got my speedo fixed and all new fluids and think I'm ready for
next summer!!!! .... onward.....

[Nails]

Just installed a Clearview 19" shield,

Now you need to cut half of it off.

[cranky]

THAT was what started it!!!! GBG I cut 2 1/2" off after progressive springs, too short,
when I went to Deadwood in July, the wind on my l'cheap'o helmet was "much"...
.. made me get a new one and always wanted to try a vent... so what the hey....

.. was talkin' to some friends in Deadwood, I heard me say, at my age, I got
more money than time... yeah, I heard that... farkles are OK at my age!!! GBG