E10 fuel

[Dan66]

Here in the U.K , E10 (10% ethanol) fuel has just been introduced, replacing the standard E5 which used to be cheaper but has now become much more expensive !
There has been a lot of fuss and discussion about the detrimental effects of the E10 on older bikes, particularly with regard to fuel lines, seals and carburetors.
These effects are most likely attributed to long term use and bikes that are left standing for long periods.
When reading through various lists of compatible models, kawasaki have very few listed and certainly not the voyager. HOWEVER, am i right in thinking E10 or higher has been used in the states for many years ? If that's the case and considering the voyager was made primarily for the American market, is there really any concern with the level of ethanol in fuel and the voyager?
If there's no issue, then i'd rather use E10 because it is now the cheaper option.
Your thoughts on this anyone ?

[vxiirider]

I had two Voyagers, a '98 and an '03 between 2002 and 2020 and never used anything but E10 and never had any problems. For winter storage I always added Sea Foam, an ounce per gallon of fuel and the bikes always started up in the spring, like they had just been run the day before. I never started the bikes during storage to warm them up but did keep them on a battery maintainer during their long sleep. Welcome to the group and never be afraid to ask a question as there are many here that will be happy to help you out. Ride safe, John

[cushman eagle]

I agree with vxiirider on the use of E10,as that is all I have used since I bought mine.
I also use Seafoam in it for storage,and for occasional use during the year.

[Dan66]

That’s a bit more reassuring, thanks. If you’ve been using it all that time , then I’m good to go.
Call me tight fisted, but if I can get away with using higher ethanol fuel, I will. The other stuff is 10 pence per litre more! That’s a heck of a lot over the course of a year.
Mine was imported in ‘91 and is in pretty good shape. Only a few small wear and tear marks. With still under 40,000 on it , the frame is sound to.

The one big problem I do have, is that I lost my left side pannier lid!
Absolutely gutted. To cut a long story short, it flew off whilst on the motorway. Luckily, it was very early and there was no other traffic, but no chance of retrieving it.
Most likely it was trashed anyway.
I thought I’d made the mistake of leaving it unlocked, but no... the catches were locked.
Just to make matters worse, I was thinking of fixing some straps to the inside , in case something like that happened. I never got around to it.
The chances of finding another are slim, but the search goes on.

[GrandpaDenny]

The one big problem I do have, is that I lost my left side pannier lid!
Absolutely gutted. To cut a long story short, it flew off whilst on the motorway. Luckily, it was very early and there was no other traffic, but no chance of retrieving it.
Most likely it was trashed anyway.
I thought I’d made the mistake of leaving it unlocked, but no... the catches were locked.
Just to make matters worse, I was thinking of fixing some straps to the inside , in case something like that happened. I never got around to it.
The chances of finding another are slim, but the search goes on.

You're not alone, my friend, you are not alone. Enough of us have lost one (or more) that the left side saddlebag has become extinct. I have done the same, had the tethers made up and ready to install, and got home from a ride to discover the saddlebag lid was missing. Proper tensioning and alignment of the latches is also crucial.

Ok I admit it, I'm on my third, and the bike didn't have one when I bought her.

[Dan66]

Whilst we’re on the subject, does anyone out there have one for sale?
Or perhaps you can suggest a stockist/breaker/supplier etc., that I might be able to buy one from?
Seems to me, the states is probably going to be my only option.
There’s one on U.K. eBay at the moment... but right hand side. The small number I have seen on eBay.COM have also been right side. What is about the left ?
Sorry so many of you have been in the same boat.
Bit of a poor design on Kawasaki’s part there I reckon.

[SgtSlag]

My 1993 Voyager owner's manual states that ethanol gasoline should be avoided. I own, and still drive, a 2000 Chevy pickup. The gas tank level float is junk, because of long-term usage of E10 gas, prior to my buying it. A new tank float part is $700; need to drop the 26-gallon tank, to replace it; labor is $135 per hour... I rely upon the trip meter to know when I need gas. I only burn ethanol-free gas in my truck, as I hope to keep it running as long as possible.

The federal government in the USA allows legal exemptions for burning non-ethanol gasoline in motorcycles, and other small engine machines. Honestly, I don't care what they say or think. Ethanol is alcohol, and it burns much hotter than gasoline. It also does nasty things to internal rubber parts, over years of exposure.

Your bike, your choice. My bike, my choice. You asked for opinions, I gave mine. Worth every Pence you paid for it.

Don't want to sound mean, or obnoxious, just sharing my opinion. For the record, I hate ethanol gas, and I hate the welfare it provides to US farmers.

With Oxygen sensors on both the air intake, and within the exhaust system, of modern fuel injected engines, controlled by computers, with catalytic converters eliminating everything, only allowing CO2 (Carbon Dioxide -- plant food for making sugar through photosynthesis) and H2O (water) to be emitted by the tail pipe, their argument that it keeps our air cleaner, just does not make sense. The closed system, which monitors the gases in, and the gases out, adjusting the fuel-air mixture to create a very clean burn, and the output gases being converted, just flattens the whole argument. Cheers!

[cushman eagle]

My 1993 Voyager owner's manual states that ethanol gasoline should be avoided. I own, and still drive, a 2000 Chevy pickup. The gas tank level float is junk, because of long-term usage of E10 gas, prior to my buying it. A new tank float part is $700; need to drop the 26-gallon tank, to replace it; labor is $135 per hour... I rely upon the trip meter to know when I need gas. I only burn ethanol-free gas in my truck, as I hope to keep it running as long as possible.

The federal government in the USA allows legal exemptions for burning non-ethanol gasoline in motorcycles, and other small engine machines. Honestly, I don't care what they say or think. Ethanol is alcohol, and it burns much hotter than gasoline. It also does nasty things to internal rubber parts, over years of exposure.

Your bike, your choice. My bike, my choice. You asked for opinions, I gave mine. Worth every Pence you paid for it.

Don't want to sound mean, or obnoxious, just sharing my opinion. For the record, I hate ethanol gas, and I hate the welfare it provides to US farmers.

With Oxygen sensors on both the air intake, and within the exhaust system, of modern fuel injected engines, controlled by computers, with catalytic converters eliminating everything, only allowing CO2 (Carbon Dioxide -- plant food for making sugar through photosynthesis) and H2O (water) to be emitted by the tail pipe, their argument that it keeps our air cleaner, just does not make sense. The closed system, which monitors the gases in, and the gases out, adjusting the fuel-air mixture to create a very clean burn, and the output gases being converted, just flattens the whole argument. Cheers!

I do not know if E-10 is welfare to us farmers,I do know the price of corn equals to us getting $.12 for a box of corn flakes to put it in perspective.I also know that farmers are hurt bad by the massive inflation raising the price of repair parts 50%, the price of fuel 50% ,and the price of fertilizer 50% to 100% just this year, and making us wonder if we are going too make any profit this year.

[Dan66]

Yup, farming is in a sorry state here too, as far as I can see. Looks all lovely from outside looking in , but the problems are similar. Add to that a drier than usual growing period and the yields are down.
Farms are being lost all the time, unable to sustain themselves, it’s sad.
For the ones who diversify and manage to keep going, I have respect for. They are still custodians of the countryside.

[cushman eagle]

My 1993 Voyager owner's manual states that ethanol gasoline should be avoided. I own, and still drive, a 2000 Chevy pickup. The gas tank level float is junk, because of long-term usage of E10 gas, prior to my buying it. A new tank float part is $700; need to drop the 26-gallon tank, to replace it; labor is $135 per hour... I rely upon the trip meter to know when I need gas. I only burn ethanol-free gas in my truck, as I hope to keep it running as long as possible.

The federal government in the USA allows legal exemptions for burning non-ethanol gasoline in motorcycles, and other small engine machines. Honestly, I don't care what they say or think. Ethanol is alcohol, and it burns much hotter than gasoline. It also does nasty things to internal rubber parts, over years of exposure.

Your bike, your choice. My bike, my choice. You asked for opinions, I gave mine. Worth every Pence you paid for it.

Don't want to sound mean, or obnoxious, just sharing my opinion. For the record, I hate ethanol gas, and I hate the welfare it provides to US farmers.

With Oxygen sensors on both the air intake, and within the exhaust system, of modern fuel injected engines, controlled by computers, with catalytic converters eliminating everything, only allowing CO2 (Carbon Dioxide -- plant food for making sugar through photosynthesis) and H2O (water) to be emitted by the tail pipe, their argument that it keeps our air cleaner, just does not make sense. The closed system, which monitors the gases in, and the gases out, adjusting the fuel-air mixture to create a very clean burn, and the output gases being converted, just flattens the whole argument. Cheers!

I do not know if E-10 is welfare to us farmers,I do know the price of corn equals to us getting $.12 for a box of corn flakes to put it in perspective.I also know that farmers are hurt bad by the massive inflation raising the price of repair parts 50%, the price of fuel 50% ,and the price of fertilizer 50% to 100% just this year, and making us wonder if we are going too make any profit this year.

I just checked the price of corn,and found it is now $4.80 locally,so we are now only getting $.10 for a box of corn flakes.I also got on the John Deere website and priced their lowest priced combine to harvest that cheap corn,with their lowest priced corn head,it is $534,041
So it is no wonder less that 2% of the population is trying to make a living farming

[1966F100]

When I can I use NON-Ethanol gas. Otherwise premium with an ounce or so of ATF to clean the system. This is an old school thing I picked up over 40 years ago and still use. Works great in an '18 Chevy diesel pick up, quart per fill, and some ZTR mowers gas and diesel.

[Nails]

Like others, mine runs fine on E10 -- on really any kind of "regular". I see no reason to avoid cheap gas -- but I can reach in my pocket and pull out the exact change. I definitely see no up-side to buying "premium".

but no chance of retrieving it. Most likely it was trashed anyway.

When I lost my saddlebag lid (yep, left side), I knew exactly where it flew off -- my wife was behind me, struggling to catch up to tell me. I made that easier on her when I noticed it was missing, within a mile or so, and pulled off.

Mine could've been considered "trashed", with deep gouges from scooting across the asphalt. But ABS is very easy to repair. As for paint, I literally still had out the paint I had just used for the whole bike. Very little effort to repaint it. I put more detail in posts at the time.

I'm saying that I'd still take a cruise to find it -- without knowing more about your details.

Or look for an alleged "trashed" one. I'd argue that the lids can be a different color without necessarily embarrassing you to death.

Proper tensioning and alignment of the latches is also crucial.

I think locking the latches has nothing to do with it. When I recovered my lid, I had to unlock it to put it back on. They fly off because the latches get bent to no longer latch securely, not because they suddenly pop open. You can practically bend them back with your fingers -- very flimsy metal.

For the record, I hate ethanol gas, and I hate the welfare it provides to US farmers.

I'm not sure how much "welfare" is there. But I understand that using corn to make ethanol burns about as much fuel as it produces. So I'm not sure these economics make a lot of sense. (I think your argument skates over some relevant issues, like burning fossil fuels to bring CO2 from underground storage rather than CO2 already circulating in the biosphere.)

I know farmers who feel like footballs in the pork-barrel game. A good discussion topic ... somewhere else.

I do miss cooking with corn oil.

At any rate, my bike does just fine on any version of "Regular". My '86 Chevy pickup actually does, too. But I did rebuild the motor and carb -- it wasn't running and didn't have the right carb when I bought it. At 200K, the bearings spec'd to stock. It needed no machine work whatsoever; and I didn't need to take it apart in the first place. I just brought in a full load of firewood I cut this morning. Love that truck: top-loader four speed (I used granny gear plenty this morning).

And my XII. Maybe that's why they're the exact same color of white.

[GrandpaDenny]

Proper tensioning and alignment of the latches is also crucial.

I think locking the latches has nothing to do with it. When I recovered my lid, I had to unlock it to put it back on. They fly off because the latches get bent to no longer latch securely, not because they suddenly pop open. You can practically bend them back with your fingers -- very flimsy metal.

Ain't that what I said? *bonks Nails upside da head*

[Nails]

Gosh, you make it hard for a fella to agree with you.

[GrandpaDenny]

Gosh, you make it hard for a fella to agree with you.

I agree! It's such a rare occasion, it kinda blew my mind there, y'know

[Nails]

Oh bullsht. I agree with you ALL the time.

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

Oh bullsht. I agree with you ALL the time.

[Van Voyager]

In these parts of the Great White North, the pumps say: 'may contain up to 10% ethanol' (except for some Premiums which may be labeled 'Ethanol free') so you never really know if you're getting ethanol or not, but If it has ethanol in it, it's never caused a problem in anything I've run it in.

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

In these parts of the Great White North, the pumps say: 'may contain up to 10% ethanol'.....

In Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Virginia and West Virginia I've found that the pumps carry the same badges/stickers "May Contain UP TO 10%". I simply assume that since it's cheaper than real fuel that they certainly do contain the 10% (+/- depending on the ethics of the vendor) ethanol. Any pumps labeled "ethanol free" are just that and the price reflects it as well. Here in PA if ethanol gasoline 87 octane is (U.S.D.) $3.50, I can expect to pay just around $4.00-4.15 per US gallon. I have one station in my city that has it and usually do use it (real fuel/100% gasoline). Near the neighboring lakes there are a few more as boaters prefer running pure gas in their small engines as well. I've been told that one of the small engine shops about 15 miles away also has it for chainsaws and such but they are charging more of a premium price than the station is. I suppose if someone is willing to pay for it they'll sell it, one gallon at a time!

My XII has never given me any trouble with ethanol gas but when I can I try to use pure/real gasoline. The manual indicates that 87 octane is what they were designed to run on so I don't use the higher (except 88 at one station) octanes.

[GrandpaDenny]

That's interesting about the higher prices for off-road (boat and small engine) fuel. It is substantially cheaper than vehicle fuel because of the lack of road taxes, etc. I don't know about up here nowadays, but 20 years ago in Florida, gas at the marina was about 50 cents a gallon cheaper than at a gas station (boat use only), and that's when gas was less than two dollars a gallon.