I need help.

[Chris near Kansas City]

Bruce, there are other things I'd much rather be working on than this problem, that's for sure. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/i ... t/d182.jpg


Rick came by today. We put the '90 front end on the '01. Everything. Handlebar clamps, bearings (sans cups), fender, E3, speedo drive....everything. Sidenote: the bearings on the '90 were basically dry with no flat spots. So, that made me happy. Got everything swapped, the stem nut torqued to 95 in/lbs and no air in the front. Noticeable improvement to the '01. I'd probably have to say, much better. Not perfect, but better. The bike did not seem to veer off to the right. More seat time was needed.

We then decided it would be worth the time to put the '01 stuff on the '90. Our reasoning was that if the problem was better on the '01, that the problem should now be present on the '90. And if it wasn't, then I'm just crazy. Plus it wouldn't take much time. So we did. Again, from the handlebar clamps to the Avon, all the '01 stuff was now on the '90.

The result? The '90 was no longer the rock steady steed it was yesterday. It felt as though we had evened out the bikes. The '01 was not bad and the '90 wasn't good. It had some of the wiggle, but still tracked well without hands on the bars. Weird. You'd have thought it would take off towards the right without hands on the bars. Just like the '01 though, more seat time was needed. We let them both sit after the test run while we messed around with a 3rd bike. Rick headed for home. After dinner, I decided to take the '01 out. Pam came along for this run. Ran across town to Rick's. About 85 miles. Bike still has some detectible (to me) stuff, but I felt as though it was now fairly rideable. After we got home, I took the '90 back out. It now felt bad compared to the '01. I'm thinking I should now swap the tires over, so that both E3s are on the '90 where they should be, and both Avons on the '01 and retest. Now that the '01 is mostly back together and riding ok, I've got time to play with the '90. I feel that if I can figure out the '90, I should be able to swap everything back and have both bikes at their best. Ultimately, I'm thinking a triple tree from Carl or someone might be the answer. The only thing I didn't ever swap between bikes was the Superbraces. They are swapped now, but were only swapped with the rest of the fork lowers and such. We actually took the front end off the '90 as an assembled unit. I had disassembled the '01 piece by piece the other night. I'd still like to keep the '90 front end as intact as possible, so I doubt I'll remove both superbraces for a test at this point.

I feel I'm getting close and I realize that close may be as good as it gets. Heck, it was worth it to "fix" the bearing issue that the '90 was having (flat spot feeling). Other than maybe putting the right tire/wheels back on the correct bikes, I'm going to leave them as-is for a bit. I'll keep you posted.

Chris

[David (N. Alabama)]

Thanks for the update Chris. Now I have to ask. What is with the rolling chassis? Did you expand the garage? Last I knew there was a mopar and at least 3 bikes in there.

[pipelinepete]

To heck with this...I'm going darkside. The tire will be here Monday. Will let y'all know how I make out.

Peter

So I bought a CT that was supposed to fit the XII (Federal SS-657). The guys at the bike shop could not get the bead to seal against the rim, and quit at 60 psi. To ensure I could keep riding, I got them to reinstall the 404. So my attempt at darkside was a failure.

I did replace the front 404 with a Bridgestone. So far I've noticed nothing different and the slow speed wobble is still there.

I wondering if a Goldwing 1800 might be in my future....

Peter

[gearheadfla]

To heck with this...I'm going darkside. The tire will be here Monday. Will let y'all know how I make out.

Peter

So I bought a CT that was supposed to fit the XII (Federal SS-657). The guys at the bike shop could not get the bead to seal against the rim, and quit at 60 psi. To ensure I could keep riding, I got them to reinstall the 404. So my attempt at darkside was a failure.

I did replace the front 404 with a Bridgestone. So far I've noticed nothing different and the slow speed wobble is still there.

I wondering if a Goldwing 1800 might be in my future....

Peter

My bead popped at 45 lbs, I used some good tire mounting paste to lube it up, the Darkside site covers this in depth, some have gone as high as 75 to 80 lbs, but I wouldn't wanna be around it. The trick that is used most is fill it with around 50 and set it out in the hot sun for awhile and it pops after it gets hot in the sun.

[Chris near Kansas City]

Thanks for the update Chris. Now I have to ask. What is with the rolling chassis? Did you expand the garage? Last I knew there was a mopar and at least 3 bikes in there.

David, it's a long term project, some 10+ years in the making. 1923 T bucket. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/i ... t464-1.jpg Just put the engine in the frame this March and was hoping to have it running by now, but the Voyager issues have kept the T project sidelined for the last 2 months. And no, the garage has not been expanded, LOL. Just as tight as ever. One bike resides at my brother's place, and most of the time it's the '90. I had brought it back for the Moonshine run and left the W650 at his place. He actually took the W650 for a spin the other day. The Mopar, '69 Charger, is still resting quietly. I do get it out, though it's been a while. Need to spend some time, and some $$ on it, but for right now, it makes a good shelf. The T is my focus right now. Hope my brother knows there'll be an Escapade trailer in his garage if I don't get the Cycle Mate sold before Kanab.

Anyway, put another triple tree on the '90 yesterday. Bike seemed to settle down a bit compared to the '01 front triple tree. It felt more composed than the '01 did with the '90 front end on it. Guess maybe it's time to swap them back and see if both bikes are riding ok now. Soooo tired of this mess. Rick picked up a project Voy 12 (and I mean project) and talked about riding it to Kanab instead of the Wing. Told him if he did that, then I'm riding the Wing, LOL.

I adjusted the cruise cable on the '01 and did Pete's clock mod. While I had the fairing off, I checked the 2 bolts for the RH frame dog leg. One bolt wasn't as tight as I'd like and the other was fine. Nothing enough to get excited about.

[HMB Don]

Good going so far Chris,

Last week I helped put some progressive springs on a 1200. Found that the preload with nothing but springs and cap was 31mm and sag was an inch and a half. Used 5# Amesoil (fork oil) 370 cc's of oil per fork leg. The 1200 had a wobble at low speeds, the rider couldn't remove his hands from the bars, the tire is a worn 880. After the work 1200 the ride was much softer over pot holes and rough roads. Wobble or shimmy was almost gone. Didn't do anything with the steering head, just one mod at a time.

Next was a 2nd 1200 that had dealer installed progressive springs. When the fork oil was drained one leg had 370 cc's and the other fork leg had 350 cc's of fork oil, also very thick. When the caps were removed the preload was about 4 inches or 100 mm, the stock spacer, oil filter housing were still stacked on top of the fork springs. Removed spacers and oil filter housing and brought preload down to 31 mm, added 370 cc's of 10# race tech fork oil. Before the work this 1200 was a handful too ride in a stright line wanted to wonder all over the road, felt like there was something blocking the fork from compressing when a bump was riden over, last it had a shimmy where you couldn't remove your hands from the handle bars. After work was done much softer ride, most of shimmy or head shake was gone, again did not adjust the steering head bearings. Tires on this 1200 were E-3 Dunlops.

The first rider is 160 lbs and the second rider is 250 lbs. Both 1200 had a superbrace installed, both riders said that the forks were soft when touring but firm when riding in the turns. Both are very happy.

One of the 1200s will be in Kanab, we can all get more feedback then.

Don Medina
2012 Voyager 1700

[Chris near Kansas City]

I swapped the front ends back onto their respective frames. The '01 front end is on the '01, etc. The '01 has another triple tree and new lower bearing, both from Carl. The '90 is not fully reassembled.

The '01 rides as bad as before. I dunno guys, sure beats me. Still seems to want to go off to the right a bit with the hands off the bars.

I'm going to finish putting the '90 back together either late tomorrow or Wednesday. If it tracks as straight as it did before, then I'm moving the windshield, seats and trunk extender from the '01 to the '90 and it'll go to Kanab.

[Bruce in OK]

That's a bite! I don't know what to make of it not straightening up for you. I'm wondering if there is some way to pull some strings to see if the frame is tweaked out of alignment by just a smidge.

Maybe Kawasaki would let you borrow the old jigs to see if the frame still fits them.

[Chris near Kansas City]

I do wonder if the frames were made across the pond and shipped, or if they were made here.

Bruce, that is about where I'm at. Short of letting, er, paying Carl to start from scratch and re-check everything I've done, I'm sort of left with 2 options. One, strip it down to the bare frame, swingarm, fork and wheels and try and find a shop that can check it AND fix it, or two, put another frame under it. Putting a frame under it does not excite me, for a variety of reasons, most of which I won't go into tonight. To say I'm unbelievably frustrated is an understatement. Work sucks right now and every spare minute away from there is dealing with this. Tonight's ride did not go smoothly. 10 bikes just couldn't stay together. I'm sure you've heard the herding cats analogy. You ever sit on the side of the road waiting for the rest of the group and zing the revs up far enough to put the tach needle at the 6 o'clock position in the hopes that the motor would lunch a rod, but because the fellows in Japan built such a manly motor it took it without breaking a sweat, but you did it again cause you weren't sure the needle went all the way around that far, and then did it again just to watch it go that far? Well, welcome to Tuesday.

At any rate, the bike is all together, so anybody in the area that wants to ride it, it'll only cost you a quarter. Heck, I'll pay YOU the quarter, just to verify I'm not making this up.

This time tomorrow, I'll be back from a test run on the '90. Hope it goes well.

[Bruce in OK]

I went to a wedding in Milan, MO this weekend. Thought of you when driving past Worlds of Fun and the exits to the stadium complex. I guess you wouldn't describe the '01 as "Worlds of Fun". There has to be something going on that isn't visible to the naked eye. Maybe some metal fatigue is beginning and allowing some flex. If this is the case, it will eventually show up as a crack at the stress point. The trick there is finding it before the crack becomes a break. I'm still thinking something is just enough out of alignment to cause your symptoms.

I have an old front end loader with an engine that gave me similar problems. It kept eating head gaskets. I couldn't find the problem. All the liners were within tolerances in the block, yada yada, etc. etc. Gaskets kept failing between holes three and four. Finally, after literal years of looking for the problem every time the gasket was replaced, I finally found a small washed out area on the top of the block. I was able to slip a .002 feeler gauge under a straight edge in one place between those two cylinders. The bad part was the machinist said that the block had already been milled as much as specs would allow. I still have the loader and use it as an infrequent back up. As long as I don't crowd it too hard, it does fine. I don't crowd it too hard anyway. The parts sources for a '67 model loader dried up when scrap prices went through the roof.

On the bright side, I got to where I could change out the head gasket on a 922B Cat in just under two hours from shut down to start up.

[Chris near Kansas City]

What a pleasant ride.

The '90 is going to Kanab.

I'm going to bed.

[Bruce in OK]

>>The '90 is going to Kanab.

Put the '01 in "time out". Maybe that will straighten it up. In any case it will keep you from pulling any more hair out--for now.

[Winddancer]

Chris near Kansas City
have you gotten any closer to a solution??
because now my bike has developed this weird feeling, like I am going sideways down the road and it has Never had this feeling before..
even when I swapped the MC tire for a car tire it has always felt solid..
Now, the only 3 things I did to it this weekend was
1.put on a new front tire,(commander II)
2.Changed oil in front forks, and instead of the 336cc of 15wt fork oil I normaly do, I tried the way carl recomended, 145mm down from top fully compressed, which did add more oil, but I like the feel..
3rd and .. I was checking why I was getting a light coating of oil on my upper tubes,so I took one apart to see if seals were in the correct way, they were, put it back together..
After these 3 things were done, I went for a test ride solo, nice solid ride, good on curves, yada,yada,yada....same ole thing really..then can the highway to go pick up my girlfriend, WOW.. this was the first time I felt that wierd unhinged going sideways feeling.. now this section of road always seems to make my bike feel a little wierd, so I pick her up and go to a different, smoother section the has no issues..Smooth and solid on the back roads to the highway, but as soon as I got up to 70 on the highway she said to me, the bike feels funny,, like it floating sideways..and it did feel like that.. I lined up with the lines, raised my hands slightly, stayed on track, but it feels wierd..
I tested all kinds of stuff finaly let air out of front tire and thaat made it feel a lot better there is still a hint of it there, so I dont think that fixed it..
now.. the question is...
out of the 3 things I did, which did you also do, or have??
I am half tempted to take take the one fork apart again to see if I put it back together right, I am almost posititve I did, but I just can explain why I have a solid bike one day and a drifter the next.

any Ideas anyone??
thanks
Chuck

[debron]

I'm interested too if you found a fix or what the problem was/is. My '95 pulls to the right, as did my '01. If it were my car I'd suspect a wheel alignment issue or bent frame. Why not the same for the bike?

[gearheadfla]

Just a thought as anybody checked their fork brace? Mine was a little weird once and found the bolts on the brace a little lose and one of them had pulled the threads out. I still have'nt fixed that, looks like it would take a new fender to do it but I resnugged the other 3 bolts and it felt better, just throwing that in the mix.

[Winddancer]

Yup, sure did, I even loosend up every bolt on the entire front fork,tree,brace, rolled the bike back and forth to see if anything was tightend crooked or was binding up, the re tighted everything, and much to my dismay, it remained the same...
as I was riding home it almost feels as if one fork seems shorter then the other, or, one is holding up the bike a tad higher,making it want to lean, but centrifical force Makes it stay straight... if you get what I mean..
maybe I did put together something wrong in there, because I know they both have the exact amount of oil in them, and there really isnt anything in them to go bad except the seals and I have no major leak and the seals are brand new..

[Mr Jensee]

Chris, I used to be a member of the ZRXOA website. A few years ago some members complained that Kawasaki had built some bad frames for the ZRX1200's. One member actually brought his bike to an outfit in California that laser measured his frame to see if it was true. It wasn't. I believe he had to eventually end up suing Kawasaki who refused to admit the bike was defective from the start. he had gotten no help from the Factory Rep. I believe that this may be the case with your 2001 bike. Could be the same year Kawasaki messed up on the ZRX1200 in which 2001 was it's first year of production as well. Bear in mind this only affected a select few bikes but the squirrly tendencies are remarkably similar. Nothing else seems to make sense in regards to your problems.

Regards,
Michael

[debron]

Just a thought as anybody checked their fork brace? Mine was a little weird once and found the bolts on the brace a little lose...

Good call on loose brace bolts! I went out and checked mine and all 4 were loose, like more than 360° to tighten them. That did improve (but did not eliminate) the pull to the right. I "measure" by setting the cruise control then take my right hand off the handlebars and see how much pressure I have to apply with my left hand to keep the bike going straight down the road. Not very scientific but much less pressure now, though still some. I seems it may have helped, somewhat, the 30mph wobble, but that is still there.

Thanks!

[Chris near Kansas City]

Chuck, I'll read your post and question again tomorrow after I've rested my eyes.


I took it to my brother's and parked it. Not sure what's next for it.

[bikermike]

hey Chris... i just got done with my 91.. new frt prog... new rear prog... new steering bearings.. E3 up frt and a C/T on the back... i ride it was as u described, wander for a center goin down the highway. I was upset to say the least...i decided that maybe the bearing adj nut had backed off while i was workin on it... i gave it about a 1/4 turn and took it back out, all is well.... it sounds like u have tightened yours already. sure sounds like what i had going though... i bet u will find it in the bearing tight or loose.... Best of luck!! Mike