What Would You Do For a Leaking Gear Balancer Shaft Sealed Bearing?

[joelcolletti]

I hope You and Your Loved Ones are making it through this difficult time and Pandemic - Please stay Well!

I recently discovered oil weeping from the front Gear Balancer Shaft sealed bearing.

I read using Loctite or super glue could be a work around, but one shop said it will either work or blow out. Not sure if anyone has a cure for my machine.

I called some "5 Star" Yelp cycle shops nearby, and am hearing 25 hours @ $150 per hour to remove the motor and split the casing; The place I'm considering quoted 25 hrs for $3500 just for labor; with work to start in October. Most places didn't want to take the project on.

I was thinking/hoping it would be more like 10 hours. I'm pretty sure they know better and wouldn't want to rush a job like this. A lot of places, here, don't want to touch the bike b/c of its age. Fortunately, there are still plenty of parts out here, and I keep up the bike, so some shops will make an exception occasionally. I don't want to alienate this shop that quoted me for an October tear down.

I've saw an engine parted off of a 2001, with approximately 50,000 mile on it for about $800 on Ebay. This would seem smarter to me, but I have about 60,000 on my machine, and starting to have problems. Reminds me of when I replaced my 76 VW Rabbit motor when I was 19. The dealer's chief mechanic sent me to a wrecker for a working motor. Long-story-short, that engine wouldn't start; I had to buy a factory rebuilt afterward.

Then, I though I could drain the bike, take it off the battery, and keep it as an expensive die - cast model 1:1 scale, which by the way, there isn't any other scale Voyager Xll die cast to be found anywhere. I will want to have a die cast Voyager Xll if I can't keep riding mine any longer.

The shop said riding the bike with the balancer shaft seal leaking, could be dangerous leading to the seal blowing out and spraying my tires with oil. I thought the bottom end was fairly low compression on this machine - is there that chance? In a way I guess I should consider myself lucky to find out before setting off cross country.

Is my couch on wheels done for, or is it worth anything with the needed repair, say to someone like mechanic or someone with expertise, time, patience?

My co-pilot doesn't think I should put any money into a 26 year old machine which is likely to have another issue or may not get put back together correctly. She prefers I get another machine preferably smaller.

I hate to part with this bike or part it out, as I'd expected to be buried on it.

So many questions: I feel Like I'm losing a Loved One

What would you Folks consider doing?

[triton28]

joelcolletti;
Unless I am mistaking your situation the seal won't blow out nor do I believe one has to split the cases to replace the balancer seals.
I seem to recall William Overton posting that after removing the balancer lever, (dogbone I believe Bill called it ), pry the old seals out with a seal tool/pick and install the new ones and replace the balancer lever. Not having done this myself I can only refer to Bill's experience.
Don't give up on the "Couch on wheels " yet.

[cranky]

... have ya talked to someone knowledgeable, like Carl?

[joelcolletti]

...Yes: That's what I was planning on ; and was hoping it would be like the bearing on the gear shifter which can be coaxed out. Thank You Triton28

I'll try giving Carl a call - He used to be difficult to reach at times, but has always come through when we do connect. Thank You Cranky

[Barry]

More information is needed. How bad is it? Are you dripping oil onto the ground? When did it start? I think the seals are replaceable without the big expensive tear down. But I haven't ever done that. Paying a bike shop to do the work can cost more than the bike is worth. Ever since my bad experience with a local shop I've been doing my own work. It may take longer, but at least I know who to blame when things aren't right.

[joelcolletti]

Thank You for finding my post and for commenting too Barry,

I noticed the weeping started about 3 weeks ago after taking my highway pegs and floorboards off. I changed the coolant and brake and clutch fluids too.

It was a slow weep 1 drop every other day or so. I thought I need to tighten a banjo bolt, but then saw the front bearing wet. Now, the weeping in now seeping, and about a 1/4 tsp per day after riding small puddling. While parked and cool not as much

As Cranky puts it, I put a diaper on it when parked and pipes are cool - paper towel; also get smelly when pipes are hot. I have to give Carl a call Monday. Initially I thought it was coolant over flowing from the overflow and getting on the front of the case, but I can see the wet seal bearing ....

From the looks of it, It looks like it can be taken out externally, but the imploded diagram in manual looks like it is inserted from within, which makes sense, so the pressure could keep the bearing in place, is what I'd guess.

[Barry]

A possible temporary solution would be a stop leak product. I'm not a fan of them and have never used them. I found this article interesting. https://axleadvisor.com/best-engine-oil-stop-leak/ Sure wish I could locate the post that told how to fix your leak. I saw it a while back but can't find it.

[Barry]

Joel. Take a look at this: https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/ka ... 2/balancer
diagram pn 92049 looks like the 2 oil seals you need. It sure doesn't look like the motor needs disassembled to replace them to me. Right now all businesses are hurting. I suspect the shops are looking at their bottom line and not looking out for their customers. Hopefully Carl or someone will confirm these can be replaced without too much trouble. They do make special seal pullers that make the job easier. Good luck and keep us posted.

[cushman eagle]

With out pulling the dogbones to find out if the outside diameter of the seals are visible from out side the engine,I cannot know for sure,but if they are visible you can do what we do many times with farm equipment.
We find a small drill bit that can fit between the shaft and housing,[in this place,the engine case]drill a small hole through the seal,screw in a wood screw,and pry the screw,and seal out.
We have done this many times in our farm repair shop.

[cranky]

... so this gets real interesting.... First ? is, is the bearing retained or not?

I'd say it's a silly ?, but MaKaw did it on the water pump, so I'll wait...

Could it be the bearing just floated out a tad and needs to be tapped
back in? I can see other things that could be done for an unrestrained
bearing...

Interesting!!! I'd still like to hear from Carl's wealth of knowledge....
... onward....

[Barry]

The parts diagram doesn't show a bearing. Just the seal. The shaft doesn't spin, so why would there be a bearing? Carl is expecting your call. Be sure to let us know what he says!

[cushman eagle]

With out pulling the dogbones to find out if the outside diameter of the seals are visible from out side the engine,I cannot know for sure,but if they are visible you can do what we do many times with farm equipment.
We find a small drill bit that can fit between the shaft and housing,[in this place,the engine case]drill a small hole through the seal,screw in a wood screw,and pry the screw,and seal out.
We have done this many times in our farm repair shop.

I should add.use a small enough bit,so the screw does not contact the shaft or housing.
When installing the new seal,make sure the lip of the seal goes over the shaft without folding in,and I use blue loctite to seal and retain the outside of the seal.

[cranky]

... look for some sealant/RTV, etc... I've heard of it on VROC.org,
but of course forgot it... sigh... Best to Ya!!!

[cranky]

.. so we have a seal, non rotating shaft, I'll assume this is not a
new scoot - har, now just why did it start leaking? This hasta be
ripe for some kind'a Jerry rig.... outside'a the box time...... JM2C

The parts diagram doesn't show a bearing. Just the seal. The shaft doesn't spin, so why would there be a bearing? Carl is expecting your call. Be sure to let us know what he says!

[Barry]

RTV does work miracles and probably would fix this. BUT it might be difficult to get it around the shaft with the dog bone part in place. If the dog bone needs removed to apply RTV, might as well just replace the seals. They're only $4.10 each.

[joelcolletti]

Wow: I was a surprised at all the quick and great responses I received. Thank You All


Spoke with Carl Leo this morning, and it's not going to need 25 hours or engine removal. Just needs seals and some TLC. Also Sage advice from Carl: Stop using synthetic motor oil, and change oil every 3000 miles with Shell Rotella " 3 quarts 22 ozs, not an oz more or less, an tape over the oil well window too." Not sure if the Rotella oil I should use is Dino 15/40? for Northern California climate-no snow or freeze here?.

I can hardly wait to get the seals ordered and start this project. Carl suggested I change the oil after the repair, but wouldn't I want to drop the oil first before plucking the seals, to avoid oil on the floor? LMKWYT

I'm going to sleep better tonight knowing that my machine is going to remain as part of our family. Carl say's just doing the above will extend our riding enjoyment to 200,000 miles, without fear of further leaking.

Thank You to all our knowledgeable Members for taking the time to respond. I appreciated the support.


Joel

[cranky]

... to quote a famous ol' philosopher, GBG, opinions are like belly buttons,
we all have one!!! GBG ... yeah, I heard it the other way too!!!!

You got some great news!!! I have never heard a valid knock on
synthetic oil, and I bow to his wisdom!!!!!! ... and still use Mobil 1...

IIRC, isn't this a 10x40 machine?

As to taping the window, I've got 80+K on my sweet Gina and she
has yet to use a drop...

I don't remember where you will be working on the scoot, might you just
drop'er on the crash bars for easier access? Would that help or make
worse any oil leak ?.. ? Will you work on the center stand?

Would you change it after to get any crud out of the old oil
you might drop in?

Very Best to Ya!!!!! Onward.......

[joelcolletti]

I read recently synthetic oil can deteriorate non Metallica parts, so maybe that's at the root of this thinking.

[Barry]

Joel,
If you don't like laying on the floor to change these seals, I have a lift. Just come on over! Haven't seen you since the Redmond Rally in 2010? Or was it Reno in 2013?

[joelcolletti]

...2013 Reno WRR - Those were Good Times. Thanks Barry. Was it Washington State or Idaho? That's a bit far for a lift; though I'm grateful for the offer. I have a jack our club was selling, but I'm thinking I can do it without one; may just my knee pads.