Crashed XII that I want to refresh minus plastics

[Timbox]

Just picked up a XII for a really good price. That bike has almost 60K on her and has had a hard last few yrs. Almost all the plastics have issues and or are broken. So I almost have to take them all off and see if I can make a naked bike out of her.

I hope that does not make other owners mad, I just say a great project bike on FB Market and didn't want to see it go to the junk yard. Love the ZG1200 motor or at least I hope to. Looks like the specs put the HP at just under 80 for the motor. I hear she is a good running bike.

My adventure will be to read and follow all the good stuff on the tech forum. I have read a few pages so far and know that the Donlop tires were bad, and getting the carbs out will be a PITA. I am used to working on many older metric bikes so I hope I can get them out if needed.

After removing all the broken plastic, bag mounts and all that stuff, seems like a okay bike. I had washed it and then hooked jumper cables to it and she started. Hoping to put some gas in the tank and see if she will run, I turned it off right after I heard the engine was good and no bad sounds.

Have a few pics to post but I am not too sure if I am allowed to yet. Being new to the board and all. I know some places have a 5 post min limt.

One of the first things I had to do was PCV weld the four mounting bolts back onto the back of the instrument cluster. I will be keeping that on the bike but not sure how much more of the extra stuff I will keep on the bike. I want it to go down the road in a safe manner to be a run around the town bike.

[Timbox]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oVnecJ][img]htt ... .jpg[/img]366265061_6299105843551951_7052082490529013894_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/url]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oVsmLK][img]htt ... .jpg[/img]366078834_1618187082002607_9116722089386605166_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/url]

This is the PVC welding I did on the cluster. Rain day today, so will see if I can get her to run better then the other day. I might have to pull the carbs. So much good stuff on the bike, I can see why so many people do love these older bikes with all the comforts it has/had.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oVtXjp][img]htt ... .jpg[/img]ZG1200 dash by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/url]

Well at least the links are there, still need to find out how to link it so the pic shows up on the thread. All forums are different just have to lean this one.

[GrandpaDenny]

Hi, and welcome to the AVA! Couple of things:
1. To add pictures, you would click on "attachments" below the message window
2. Looks like a 2000-ish. Would you have a left saddlebag lid?
3. The plastics on the bike are ABS, not PVC. You would want to use ABS cement to glue things together. However, for all I know the speedo cluster could be PVC. All I know about for sure are the body panels.

I think somebody else on here has stripped a bike, so you may not be alone. I think somebody might have even made a bobber out of an XVII.

We don't get much into "sacrilege" here. It's your bike, you can do with it what you want. We are more likely to point out things you might want to keep because they work better, or things to change because they work better, or things that don't need to be changed because they work fine.

[Timbox]

Got more into the bike today. After taking out all the audio systems and removing the wiring looms that helps make it look a little better.

I will check on the top cover, I was reading on the sticky thread that those needed to have safety wire on them as they used to fly off. My bike was a silver one but I will take some more pics and add them as I go.

Looking under the battery cover today say way the bike ran but not so good. Cylinders 3 and 4 plugs were either not on the spark plugs or just resting on top. Got them all cleaned up with compressed air, cleaned the boots up and snugged the wires back on the spark plugs. Hit the start button and she is running really good. Idle even at 1K and doing a blip of the throttle and made me smile. This engine really does spin up fast and I like that.

Side sticker today says it is a 1991 but I will take a better picture of the triple clamp safety sticker.. Need that pic anyway as this will be a bonded title bike here in Wisconsin.

One of the things I have issues with is that hoses for the front and back (Fork and rear socks) was cut. So now what do I do to get them to hold air for a test ride? I think they are 6mm hoses and I will have to rig something up.

Did a few more plastic soldering today of the cover for the instrument cluster. Will have to make up some custom covers for the headlight to that cover and then some side cover to hide more of the wiring and other items there.

Lets talk a little about a minimal wiring bike. I have already removed the truck, that might go back on as I like to have a little storage. But for sure will be be using the cruse control feature as I have another bike for long distance riding already. I see there are two electric components one on each side of the bike. Both are made by would I think is a Mitsubishi symbol. I will have to get the bike running and then start to slowly unplug some wires to see if the bike does. That way I can removed the throttle control system as well.

Bypassing the blinker or turn signal auto cancel would also be nice. Looks like one side is a mail the other is a female so that could be just unplug and then plug the into each other with the cancel device removed from the ckt. More to come on that.

Thanks again for letting me brain storm here and see what other XII folks have to say.

[GrandpaDenny]

Got more into the bike today. After taking out all the audio systems and removing the wiring looms that helps make it look a little better.

How much do you want for the radio? Mine died recently.

One of the things I have issues with is that hoses for the front and back (Fork and rear socks) was cut. So now what do I do to get them to hold air for a test ride? I think they are 6mm hoses and I will have to rig something up.

You may have non-stock suspension. Many of us have gone to Progressive springs and shocks. Only way to tell if the fork springs have been changed t Progressive springs is to take the forks apart and look. For the rear shocks, if they have visible coil springs, they have been replaced.

I think you and Nails would get along well

-Dennis

[Nails]

Do you know that the frame is straight?

> After taking out all the audio systems and removing the wiring looms that helps make it look a little better.

Yeah, lots of wire there. And I sure don't need a radio, either.

> Hit the start button and she is running really good.

That's certainly lucky.

> One of the things I have issues with is that hoses for the front and back (Fork and rear socks) was cut.

You probably should put Progressives on it right now and not mess with it. Certainly for the forks; and certainly for the shocks if they leak.

> But for sure will be be using the cruse control feature as I have another bike for long distance riding already.

Maybe you mean you will NOT be using the cruise. So you're building a commuter?

There's a lot you can do to simplify and basically rat-out this bike. But there are serious challenges, especially to cover ugly stuff (if you dump the fairing). I saw one effort that actually looked kinda nice (viewtopic.php?p=82082#p82082) -- the long lost R model.

I really think you're making a mistake to heat-weld the ABS plastics instead of chem-welding them.

> I see there are two electric components one on each side of the bike.

Well, right off the bat, you need to spend some quality time with the service manual (see GrandpaDennys signature). And this "whiz-bang app": viewtopic.php?p=89919#p89919.

[SgtSlag]

Make certain that you change ALL of the fluids:

Fork Oil (8 Wt is standard; Dexron ATF is 8 Wt, used by many manufacturers in place of Fork Oil: cheaper, extremely high detergent, same qualities as Fork Oil);

Coolant/Anti-Freeze (all modern Anti-Freeze solutions are aluminum safe);

Engine Oil (two drain plugs; replace filter, 3 qts. 22 oz. only; make certain to use the proper viscosity);

Front and Rear Brake, and Clutch, Fluids.

The carbs are Constant Velocity (CV)... Do NOT use pod air filters: the CV carbs are tuned for the OEM air box. Any bike with CV carbs, is tuned for the OEM air box.

ABS Pipe Glue (plumbing section of any hardware store) is your friend for the plastics on most motorcycles. I've used it to repair all three of my past bikes (see my signature). Used it to repair two Vetter fairings, an aftermarket trunk, and my Voyager's Tupperware, as well. Amazing stuff. I will not use heat, unless the ABS Glue fails to bond, but it never has, since 2006. Craig Vetter sells a Hotcha Glue/Repair Kit, off of his website, but I saved myself plenty by using ABS Glue, instead.

Good luck with your project bike. Looking forward to seeing your progress. Cheers!

[GrandpaDenny]

Make certain that you change ALL of the fluids:

Fork Oil (8 Wt is standard; Dexron ATF is 8 Wt, used by many manufacturers in place of Fork Oil: cheaper, extremely high detergent, same qualities as Fork Oil);

Incorrect. Specified fluid is 10w20. NOT ATF. "Many manufacturers" does not include Kawasaki with these bikes. If your bike has progressive springs, 10w is specified. If your bike has the original springs, since 10w20 is not readily available (I did find a source for it in 55 gal. drums in Switzerland, albeit hydraulic fluid, not lubricating fluid) you have a choice between 10w or 15w. Now here's the tricky part:

1. Oil "weights" are specified by the manufacturer and vary by product and manufacturer. One manufacturer's 10w might be actually heavier than another manufacturer's 15w, and even its own oils in a different product line.

2. The heavier you are (and passenger, if any), the heavier fork oil you need.

3. The rougher the roads where you are, the heavier fork oil you need.

4. The faster you ride, the heavier fork oil you need.

I'm running Bel-Ray synthetic 15w, with a fluid level somewhere lower (bigger gap) than stock. I don't know exactly what the level is, won't know until the next time I pop the forks apart. I'm around 300lbs. in normal gear, live in Philadelphia, and like to ride fast in the twisties.

[Timbox]

Lots of great reply's and info so far thanks to all.

Yes I miss typed and meant I will NOT be using the cruise control. Thanks for pointing that out. I seem to type slower then I think and that means I miss words at time. Need to prof read better before pushing the "Submit".

Not sure on the frame, but I would hope she is true. That is why I want to get the fluids all flushed, brakes working and more or less a good once over for the bike for safety. That way I can take her down the road and see if I can feel any shakes, lean or tweaking that might be going on. I have a good eight mile loop by my place and I live in the country, so that helps with test riding for the first time. I call them shake down tests.

Last yr I "refreshed" nine bikes over the winter time. Just wanted to put that out there so some of you know this is not my first time trying this. I know not to put PODS on any CV carbs, way too much busy work getting the jets right and I am in it for the pleasure of riding. I have my Bandit 1250S for fast and fun.

Yes lots of time checking out the wiring and seeing how much I can pull before the bike does not function as it should. As with most of the systems on bikes they are not all integrated, The Audio system came off and only shared power and some grounding. I am hoping but not sure it that is the same with the cruise control.

Hoping to get to her a little today, have the DOT 4 ready to flush the brake system. Coolant and oil are on the list too. I know we all have our own thought on oil ect. so lets just say I have used a brand and a viscosity that has really held up well over the yrs and I will stay with that one.

[SgtSlag]

For the OP, and others, as this is a public forum...

I will agree to disagree on Fork Oil. Here is a link which discusses Fork Oil properties, in general terms.

The critical property of Fork Oil is that it maintains its viscosity throughout its operating temperature range. Also, Fork Oil is used to absorb shocks, not really as a lubricant. Honda used Dexron ATF for Fork Oil, for many bikes, for many years. Other makers did so, as well, typically in the late 1970's and 1980's model years. Dexron ATF maintains its viscosity, just like Fork Oil; it absorbs shock well, equivalent to 8W Fork Oils; it has potent anti-foaming agents; it is highly detergent, which regular Fork Oils are not; it is less expensive than Fork Oils, typically.

My three bikes were ridden by three people, well over 50,000 miles, combined, using Dexron ATF, without incident. it does work very well, in MC Forks. If it did not work equal to Fork Oil, I, or one of my family members, would have crashed, and we never had an accident caused by front end suspension mishaps. Wife and I have toured, two up, many times, many thousands of miles, on our XII, fully loaded with gear, over some poor, rough, roadways. Never an issue with front suspension. The Progressive Fork Springs made a big difference in the ride and the control, drastically improving it all, running Dexron ATF in the forks.



I scoured the Internet, back in 2006-12 era, to figure out why Honda, and others, used Dexron ATF (note that nobody used any other type of ATF in Front Forks, just Dexron ATF). What I found was that Dexron ATF was equivalent to 8W Fork Oil.

With regards to Progressive Suspension recommending 10W Fork Oil, I checked their site, and I found nothing on Fork Oil weight recommendations. I found they sell only 5W and 10W Fork Oils, but my local shop offers 5W to 20W, typically in 2W and 5W increments.

I bought, and installed, Progressive Fork Springs in all three of my bikes. Never did I see any Fork Oil viscosity recommendations within the printed instructions, inside the boxes, for any of my three very different bikes back then, nor was there any mention of recommended Fork Oil viscosities on their website. This was across a period of 2007-2012; when I looked, today, I found nothing for Fork Oil Viscosity in the XII-specific listing, nor the general listing. If they had recommended a viscosity as being the best for my particular bike models, I would have gone with it, every time. They know more about it than I ever will, but they never offered any recommendations that I saw.

Every bike is different, every rider is different. Rider's preferential choice.

I would, however, recommend full synthetic, not a blend, of the Dexron VI ATF: full synthetic oils last twice as long as the dino versions. If you go with traditional Fork Oils, again, I recommend full synthetic, for twice the longevity: 20,000+ miles between changes. Brand is buyer's choice.

The very best advice I can offer anyone, is to consult a local, trusted motorcycle mechanic. Ask them what they think, and what they recommend. Feel free to ask about a specific product, if you have one in mind (Dexron ATF's, for example). if they are worthy of their title, and worthy of working on your bike, they will give you an honest answer. If not, find a better mechanic to work with. Cheers!

[VoyKimmer]

On my 02 with progressive fork springs I’ve used bel ray 15 w, 10 w , dextron synthetic ATF and now using amsoil 5 w fork oil. So far the Amsoil 5 w with fluid quantity set at 150mm is the best ride I’ve had yet. Keep in mind I only weigh 160 lbs and never have a passenger.

[Timbox]

Did a through cleaning of the bike, she really needed it. When I do the shade down run I will hit it with some degrees and high pressure water. Only the area that don't have the wires guys, I know better.

Flushed all the DOT 4 systems and radiator. All the fluids were okay, not good but okay. Could have been just crusty brown stuff but all DOT 4 areas you cold see though the fluid.

Batter is being pushed to Monday now...what is up with that Amazon...lol

Put the side covers on, tank cover and just sat the seats back up in place. I think once I figure out what to do with the front end she will be a good running cheap bike. I hope that is. Frame could be off but I don't see any impact areas on any parts of the frame.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oWcX6H][img]htt ... .jpg[/img]BIke by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/url]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oWcX55][img]htt ... .jpg[/img]BIke 1 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/url]

Top covers could use some help, left one looks okay right one needs a lot of TLC.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oWcXav][img]htt ... .jpg[/img]366750687_849248143459952_6455518730770056753_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/url]

[Nails]

To post photos here, I think you'll need to copy to a file on your desktop and then attach it. At any rate, the flickr links ain't getting it. I only got the images up after some html-fu.

Interesting exhaust system, especially if you're going naked.

Even though the right top is busted to hell and gone, I'm sure it can be salvaged to usable. Maybe get your money back right there.

[SgtSlag]

I would recommend applying blue painter's masking tape to the OUTSIDE of the cracked top cover, while pressing it together. Then clean the inside with Pipe Glue Cleaner solution, letting it dry completely. Then paint black Plumber's Pipe Glue into, and over the top of, the cracks. Build it up, a little, to reinforce the repair areas -- this will be on the inside, so it doesn't matter, cosmetically.

Plumber's Pipe Glue is ABS Plastic dissolved in Acetone solution: the Acetone evaporates, leaving behind ABS Plastic, and the bike's Tupperware is made of ABS Plastic. When dried, the Glue will mold itself to the surfaces it is in contact with, so the Glue which contacts the surface of the masking tape, will be rough, in texture, when you peel the tape away, after it completely dries (24 hours is a safe waiting period); the glue that has no contact with anything, will harden into a black, glossy, smooth textured surface.

The Plumber's Pipe Glue makes a perfect weld for the Tupperware. After the Glue dries (24 hours), peel off the masking tape, sand/buff, if necessary. The internal surfaces I would leave alone, untouched -- they don't matter. If you need to repaint the exterior, that is up to you.

I repaired the broken corners of my Honda's trunk, using this technique. It worked, superbly. Only issue I had, was the roughness of the dried glue, on the outside: the corners had small holes in them, where chunks of ABS Plastic were missing. This is where I learned that the tape would leave a rough texture in the dried ABS Plastic that was painted onto the tape's adhesive side. We rode that bike around Lake Superior, two up, after I plugged those holes: never had any cracks, no issues whatsoever, after the repairs, and 11,000 miles ridden.

I also used this technique to repair the Honda's Vetter Vindicator fairing: went down, at 40 MPH, sliding 200 feet, grinding the plastic trim off on the outside edge, exposing internal metal ribs in that edge. I painted Pipe Glue over them to cover them, and to improve the cosmetics -- worked amazingly well, hard to notice the damage after it was dried!

I had to plug some small holes in the lower portions of my 440's Vetter QuickSilver fairing: covered the holes with masking tape, painted Pipe Glue into the corners, in the bottoms of the side pockets on the QuickSilver, building it up in thickness. I let it dry, pulled the tape, and done -- no more holes! Worked marvelously well, on all applications, functioning perfectly, structurally strong and sound, improving the cosmetics in all applications. Best kept secret in MC Tupperware repairs! Cheers!

[Nails]

SgtSlag, Did you see that the acetone actually penetrated that far? I normally cut a Dremel kerf about half-way through the plastic to make sure the acetone gets all the way in there. I'm not concerned about filling a little gap -- I've patched holes more than an inch with nothing but ABS cement. (Worked in from the edges in multiple ugly passes, and then cleaned up all the ugly with a Dremel and sandpaper.)

If it hasn't been said already, ABS "cement" is just ABS dissolved in acetone. ABS is the only common plastic that acetone will dissolve. For other kinds of plastic, you might be able to use hot welding or some kind of glue -- I don't know of another chemical welding approach.

My bike needed lots of ABS repair, and only one failed. That was on the corner of the fairing that breaks when you drop the bike hard. I had to reef it closed with straps, but when I took the straps off it stayed welded. I eventually re-broke forcing the fairing back on in frustration.

[SgtSlag]

I always pushed the Pipe Glue into the gaps, thoroughly, using the cap's brush applicator. This always ensured good penetration and full filling in of the cracks. It worked almost every time...

I had a screw well, on my XII, on one of the lowers, which had busted out. I glued it back into position, so that the screw well was re-attached, solidly, to the lower fairing. Unfortunately, something was bent, putting the original stress back into the repaired screw well. It broke in the exact same way, a short time after I fixed it. Tried fixing it a second time: same result. Now I use black Zip-Tie's to hold the lower in place: gives it sufficient freedom of movement to avoid further breaking of the Tupperware pieces, while holding them in place, sufficiently. I could not figure out how to relieve the stress causing the breakage, so I found a functioning work-around. It is impossible to see, until you take a close look at them.

When I need to remove the front fairings, I cut the Zip-Tie's off, and then I re-assemble it, with new Zip-Tie's. It has worked well enough for me, for the last 10 years, and 30,000 miles.

Since the Tupperware is now made of Unobtanium, I do what I can to preserve what I have. Pipe Glue and Zip-Tie's are my friend. Cheers!

[SgtSlag]

For filling in large holes, I would recommend using a piece of cardboard, like the backing from a legal pad, as a scraper. Draw it across the liquid Pipe Glue, when wet, or dried to a slightly viscous texture, to smooth it out. You will have less sanding/grinding to do when it is fully dry.

I did some crafting with Pipe Glue, to make miniature stalagmites. I "painted" it over a crumpled aluminum foil armature. It worked, but I found that I had made it too thin, so it was a bit brittle, when dried, for this application. It really is a marvelous tool to work with, in a variety of situations.

It can be 'molded', or sculpted, using neoprene gloves, or other shaping tools. It takes a bit of time to dry to a hardened material, so you have working time with it, but only a minute or two, depending upon thickness of the application.

Again, if you use any type of tool on it, this will roughen the surface, leaving it matte, at best. If you apply it, fresh from the can, and leave it, without touching its surface, it will dry/harden to a smooth, polished finish, usually on the back side of the finished object, where no one will see it. LOL. Sometimes this is exactly what you need.

Otherwise, it can be finely sanded, and gently polished, but a better approach is to sand it smooth, and then apply a high gloss paint to it. Cheers!

[GrandpaDenny]

There are different kinds of "pipe glue" used by plumbers. PVC cement chemically welds PVC and is clear. "All-purpose" cement doesn't work very well on ABS. It takes a long time to cure, and is kind of yellow. ABS cement is specifically made for ABS and is black. You can do all kinds of cool stuff with ABS cement, fixing cracks and holes is just part of it. I rebuilt a broken tit on a plastic part, making layers upon layers and then shaping it. It was a pain in the ass and time consuming, but it worked.'

Oh, there is also "airplane glue" or "model cement" which chemically welds styrene. Super glue works fairly well on polycarbonate (as in windshields). Ue the liquid kind, not the gel.

IIRC in shop class a gazillion years ago we used alcohol on some kind of plastic, I don't remember what kind it was.

[Timbox]

Okay I have figured out how to do the pics. Needed to just past it straight in from flicker to the forum. So here they are:

366265061_6299105843551951_7052082490529013894_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr
366078834_1618187082002607_9116722089386605166_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr
ZG1200 dash by Tim Brown, on Flickr
BIke 1 by Tim Brown, on Flickr
BIke by Tim Brown, on Flickr

Thanks for all the support on putting the front end back together but I am missing parts larger then being able to fill it. So for now the bike will be getting some sort of modified improvised front end to make it road worthy. It will not be supper nice but it will be functional.

Live kicked me in the butt yesterday so was not able to get to the bike. Have other projects that need to be taken care of but will get back to the bike. I did start her again, fired right up, and made sure the trans was in good working order. I did notice that my fuel tank indicator is saying full and it only has about a gal of gas in it. Looks to be easy enough to get to on top of the tank. That was nice of Kaw to do that wit this model, most are on the bottom and a sealing issue is always a worry.

[Nails]

I started to hack off the back of my mufflers, planning to weld on a different tail extension. But I chickened-out after seeing the inner pipe that goes through -- I just welded back the outer pipe I had cut. These exhaust systems can be sophisticated such as the XII's favoring one exit over another; and I don't like hacking away on things I don't understand.

But I'm still thinking of completely replacing my XII mufflers with some simple Harley left-overs. However, many late-model Harley pipes are also complicated -- the left and right pipes are not identical.