Clunky (stall) & slipping clutch

[lordofthelan]

I just traded my 94 Virago 1100 for a 96 Voyager 1200 XII and took it directly to my shop to have it given a go-over. At 94k miles I thought it would be best to have all fluids changed, tune up, and general check-up of all systems. They were confused why sometimes when downshifting into 1st the bike would stop running. So, while riding home (I got 1/4 mile) it cut off when I downshifted at a traffic light. I suspected a clutch issue. So, when accelerating I shifted to keep RPMs low and found the clutch slipped in gear 2, 3, and 4. Also, to me it feels off that the clutch doesn't begin to engage until I have the lever almost 70% released.
The shop thinks I may need a new clutch. Reading here I see people talking about bad springs. I'm open to all of you with Voyager XII experience as to what may be going on with my bike.
Thanks all!

Erick

[cushman eagle]

You might want to see if both ports in the clutch master cylinder are open so all the fluid can return to the reservoir allowing the clutch to fully engage.
It is also possible you need new springs,and ,or discs.
As far as the engine stopping, a service manual would help you to diagnose if you have a safety switch on the clutch lever,kick stand or neutral position hanging up
Let us know what you find

[lordofthelan]

Thanks for the tips. The shop tells me when they changed all fluids they also serviced the clutch making sure all ports were clean and working properly. Engine oil was changed along with coolant, brake system, and final drive. The cutout only happens occasionally when downshifting to first at a stop. They are checking springs next then clutch. The bike has 94k miles and I suspect the clutch is original.

[triton28]

As cushman eagle touched on, it sounds as though EITHER your engine lockout switch mounted on the clutch master cylinder underside may be misfiring sporadically, OR the side stand switch is sending the wrong signal to the engine lockout switch. I am including the jpeg from October 30, 2015 showing the internals of a clutch lever lockout switch but not of the manual showing the Left Handlebar Switch Connections as I checked the MSM schematic and the connections in the MSM schematic are indeed as I described in my post.
Perhaps you can try the test method I suggested to delsurfin in the last paragraph and see if it helps.
Also if you suspect side stand switch, disconnect the 2 wires at the side stand switch body and temporarily jump them together with a double alligator test clip. This side stand switch is normally a closed circuit with the stand up in the retracted position. Don't let this, or any other jumped connection short out during testing.
This is all speculation on my part but it may be of some help.
Dave

October 30, 2015 Post: while looking to the starter lockout switch connections for a problem delsurfin was experiencing I noticed what I believe to be an anomaly in what the published literature shows and what I believe is the actual connection sequence. The above jpeg shows the brass contact strips and the respective harness colour wiring connections. It also shows the 3 point slide connector which, when turned over 180 degrees and mounted onto the strip assemblies, travels along the brass strips. As one can see the common terminal is Black and the selected terminals are either Black/Red OR Black/Yellow. So following this, when the clutch lever is NOT pulled in, the Bk/R and Bk terminals are connected. This is as is published.
Image
However, when the clutch lever IS pulled in, the contacts are Bk and Bk/Y. This appears to NOT be as per the published literature, as the lower, shop manual photo shows Bk/R and Bk/Y as being connected.
I have taken 4 switches apart and they all have the same wire routings and 3 point slider orientation as the one shown disassembled in the top jpeg.
I checked the colour coding on 4 LH handlebar switch wiring harness lockout switch connectors and the coloured wires all went to the terminals I have labelled in the top photo.
I do not have any problems with the lockout switches themselves as installed so it probably is just a typo in the published literature OR, am I missing something obvious elsewhere in the wiring diagram, possibly the Light Green wire and the neutral switch itself, which would explain the published connections despite what I have found?
Any thoughts?
delsurfin, maybe connect the BK and Bk/R wires in the connector going to the lockout switch with a loop of small gauge braided wire jumper having 3/8ths bared and twisted on each end to mimic the male pins of the switch itself, and see if your engine cutting out problem disappears.
Dave

[lordofthelan]

@Triton28 : Thanks for the helpful information about the switch. This may explain the downshifting cutout, but unfortunately not the clutch slipping at low rpm while accelerating.

[triton28]

Yeah Erick it doesn't help with the clutch and that is most likely the 6 pressure plate springs OR, models after 1991 had a spider
spring setup in the clutch hub nut area, under the pressure plate, which has a bad habit of breaking off one or more of the "legs" of the spider spring. Then the broken part/s lodge in the hub area or between the plates and cause slippage.
Either repair is easy to complete for the average handy person.
Dave

[lordofthelan]

This is good to know. If a new clutch is needed, would you go with OEM only or save $100 and mix with aftermarket parts?

Yeah Erick it doesn't help with the clutch and that is most likely the 6 pressure plate springs OR, models after 1991 had a spider
spring setup in the clutch hub nut area, under the pressure plate, which has a bad habit of breaking off one or more of the "legs" of the spider spring. Then the broken part/s lodge in the hub area or between the plates and cause slippage.
Either repair is easy to complete for the average handy person.
Dave

[triton28]

Personally I would go with OEM as I have found the standard of acceptable limits is higher with OEM.
And also, $100.00 is not a lot of money nowadays for the peace of mind it would buy; but that's just an opinion on my part.

Dave

[lordofthelan]

Well, a new clutch setup and stronger spring did the trick. It shifts well now, no slipping, and downshifts into first without stalling. It's SO good to be back on the road again! Thanks all for the good advice.

[cushman eagle]

Well, a new clutch setup and stronger spring did the trick. It shifts well now, no slipping, and downshifts into first without stalling. It's SO good to be back on the road again! Thanks all for the good advice.

I am glad to hear you got her going