Really bad noises...

[Okie34]

Ok folks, I've looked high and low and not really found anything that pertains to this possible problem. I have a 95 XII. We changed the spark plugs last Saturday.

Why? We took some temp readings off the exhaust pipes. The bike has been getting a bit harder to start in the mornings and almost sounds like it's missing. Once warmed up though, it generally runs pretty good. The left outside exhaust was running about 100 degrees cooler that the other three. That gave us the idea that the spark plug maybe fouled. In changing this, we decided to go ahead and change the others while we were at it. None of the plugs were fouled. However, the connection ends to the wires were in sad shape. We repaired those. We blew out the plug wells with compressed air before removing the plugs. There was plenty of scale around the plugs due to a coolant leak though. We installed the new plugs, and started the bike.

On this, there was such a clatter and racket I would have thought it had thrown a rod! I mean it was not a nice sound! Shut it down and start thinking, what did we do wrong? Nothing by our account. The bike was not making any ontoward noises prior to the change. We pulled the plugs and looked for anything we might be able to find in the plug holes. We turned the engine over trying to see if something was chewing up the pistons. Nothing. They weren't hitting the plugs. Put them back in and started it again. The clatter was still there!

Now we let it run a bit and it started to get less, though still there. Shut her down and consult with the boss. He said it sounded liek a piece of Carn knocked loose and was bouncing around. A possibility, but pretty remote as the piston heads were clean. Maybe from a valve?

In any case, as the engine warmed up, it still sounded like it was missing. Not an obvious jerking type missing, but an occasional miss. The knocking clatter reduced itself. We revved the motor. I believe had it been a rod, we would have already cratered. Oil level checks out ok. We put some de-carbonizer in the tank (recommendation of the Kaw guys) and I went out to run it hard.

The most noticible was about 2000 - 2500 rpm, then amost went away. at 4500 rpm, it came back almost as a 'snicker' against the engine noise, but noticable in the the power dropped for about 30 seconds, then the came back.

Today, I can still hear the clatter, though not to the degree it was. It's barely noticable now. It still sounds like it might be missing. I'm really no better off than where I was before.

Any ideas? Thoughts? I'll answer questions to the best of my ability though my mechanical skills are not real good.

-- JD

[Okie34]

Initially, there are 4. One coming out of each cylinder. We checked the temps at the Cylinder or the down tube.

[Mr Jensee]

Make sure you haven't crossed the spark plug wires. Though I haven't checked the Voyager, I know that the firing order is usually powered by only two coils. 2 cylinders are timed to fire at the same time while the other two are not. Make sure the wires are not crossed and that you are not firing on the cylinders at the wrong time. You could end up with damage to the valves.

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

The other thought is: are you sure you put the correct plugs in? If the nose is too long, it may hit on the piston (was the compression washers also on the plugs). I would think it would stop running fairly quickly though as the piece over the electrode would probably be mashed up against the electrode. But, thought this would be worth checking.

[Okie34]

Plug wires were put back on in the same order they were taken off. Though we'll look at this one again just to be sure.

PLugs were the same type as was in place. Also, when checking, nothing had "hit" either the plugs or the pistons that we could see.

-- JD

[David (N. Alabama)]

Are the temps on the headers now consistent?

To me it sounds like either a fuel flow issue or an intermittant electrical issue.

I had some bad plug wires on a vehicle once where on a dark night you could see electrons leaking.

Or should I say the results of electrons leaking.

[Okie34]

Here's a quick update. Coming to work this morning, the "Tick" (lack of a better term) became somewhat more pronounced, then the engine lost power! Simply wasn't hitting on all cylinders and I could not get speed up for love nor money. So I turned towards home. A couple of blocks later and a couple of shifts, it cleared itself up.

Oh yeah... We have drained the Carbs and found nothing unusual there.

-- JD

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

How are the ends of the plug wires after you unscrew the plug caps? If they are mushroomed badly or look like they may not have the greatest or tight connection, remove just enough off the plug wire to get rid of the mushroom, then re-screw it back on the plug cap. This is assuming there is enough plug wire to be able to do this. This may not be it, but worth checking if you already haven't. When screwing the plug caps back on to the wire, make it snug, but don't strip it. On snug but not too hard at all.

[Okie34]

Gary - Plug wires were in bad shape, Clipped them and re-installed. No change

Just Me - a fouled carb is a possibility. Haven't dug quite that far.

The symptoms as I've described are constistant through out a tank of gas. Fuel Filter was changed 2 months ago.

The sound is almost like a lifter? Kind of like what you would hear in a car? Certainly metallic in nature.

-- JD

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

Maybe this is way off base, but is your oil level ok, not too high. To high of oil level can goof the lifters and they could be sticking. You should see a bubble in the oil sight glass window. If not, and it is mostly dark, you may have too much oil in the engine. This will cause ticking.

[Chris near Kansas City]

Just Me - a fouled carb is a possibility. Haven't dug quite that far.-- JD

If you spray WD40 into the back of the carb for whichever cylinder you suspect of not operating correctly and it cuts back in, then you know it's a carb issue instead of ignition.

A lifter tick, if I'm correct, will sound like a paper clip, thumb tack, or straight pin being dropped on a countertop. Carl has mentioned before, that a carb way out of whack, can make a motor sound like it has a rod knock, which sounds more like a large plastic screwdriver handle being beaten against the block. Kind of, LOL.

[Rick near Kansas city]

Have you checked the wireing to the coils. ground and hot. Had a 93 the hot wire to one coil was streched into, played with it the bike would run.

[Okie34]

I appreciate the tips! I'll suggest the WD 40 trick to the mechanic. However, I'm almost ready to rule out the carbs. We just had them synced up a little over a month ago.

Having too much oil could be a possibility, though doubtful. However, draining the oil today and having a peek inside should fix that possibility.

Here's another interesting thing I noticed this morning. The bike normally sits on the side stand and I start it up that way. I let it warm up a bit before I run off to work. I ALWAYS have to choke it. Since this issue has come about, I've had to choke it more to get it running in the a.m. I also have noticed that when I straighten it up (make it level and ready to ride), then RPM's increase. Especially if it's still choked some.

-- JD

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

Having too much oil could be a possibility, though doubtful. However, draining the oil today and having a peek inside should fix that possibility.

-- JD

Make sure you or the mechanic drains the oil out of both drain plugs and the oil filter. Not sure if you or he is aware there are three different places in which to drain the oil on the 1200's. If you don't completely drain the oil, and then just add the recommended amount, you will be overfilled.

[RCReecer]

Here's another interesting thing I noticed this morning. The bike normally sits on the side stand and I start it up that way. I let it warm up a bit before I run off to work. I ALWAYS have to choke it. Since this issue has come about, I've had to choke it more to get it running in the a.m. I also have noticed that when I straighten it up (make it level and ready to ride), then RPM's increase. Especially if it's still choked some.

-- JD

This sounds like a carb/fuel-flow problem...

[Okie34]

Well, the bike is ta the shop. One of the things to do is to change out the fuel filter. Even though this was done recently, it's not going to kill me to do it again. I'll even consider a second inline filter.

When the engine runs, it usually runs rather well. Very responsive. It's just one of those issues that we used to have in the Army. You would redline a problem and down the bird, the mechanic would come along, write on the shett "unable to reproduce issue" and up the bird. It made for some pucker factor flights!

-- JD

[phill12]

Jd besure to use NKG plugs and change them again. Be sure to get the correct heat range ie: 7 or 8 heat range and check the cap. 7 is the hotest. I'm running 8's in the Venture but I think I need to change them to a 7.

Phill

[Okie34]

Phill, we replaced them with the same type that was in there. They were NKG's but I don't remember the actual number. None of the plugs were fouled and looked like they were doing what they were supposed to.

Anyway, it's in the shop now so we'll see what they come up with.

-- JD

[phill12]

ok hope you get it fixed soon!

[Okie34]

Ok, got the bike back yesterday afternoon. They checked the compression, and synced up the carbs. As they were checking the compression they ran it without plugs. The mechanic said something was getting blown out of the #2 (from the right) cylinder. Once it cleared out, they put on the guage and everything checked out.

So, I rode it about 40 miles in the WIND! It's running the smoothest I've had it run sonce I bought it. Still some noises from the lower end though. But nothing that appears to be a show stopper.

So, for now, I'm back in the saddle. Time to get out and RIDE!

If I get up early enough, I may even try to hook up with Phill for his big ride tomorrow.

-- JD