Has anyone had fuel filter issues?

[Bruce in OK]

I've had an issue reappear on my bike. A couple of years ago, I had fuel start coming out of the overflow on my carbs while on a trip to Colorado. After cleaning the carbs a couple of times, we found the fuel filter had seperated. Part of the gunk coming out of the carb bowls when I drained them appeared similar to the glue used to hold the filter element in place inside the filter. The only fuel available on that trip was ethanol.

Last weekend, I went on a trip to Missouri--same deal, the only fuel available was ehtanol. This evening, the wife and I were going out for a ride. When I started up the bike and backed it out of the garage, fuel began flowing out of the overflow again. I haven't gone any further in the investigation. It's too hot in the garage and I'm too tired.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had a similar issue. Am I reading too much into the fact that I had been using ethanol in both instances?

[debron]

10% ethanol is the only fuel available here in Oregon (and I believe, Washington) (legal for on-road use anyway) and I've had no problems with any vehicles, including lawn mowers and tractors, and outboard motors, and, oh yeah, motorcycles...as long as they don't sit unused for six months.

[jaster]

On the way back from Ripley one weekend, I noticed a gas smell but couldn't tell where it was coming from. I got home and saw gas pouring on the exhaust (the overflow hose was routed wrong). Flushed the carbs and it ran fine for a day then started pour out gas again. Pulled the carbs and cleaned all 4 but that lasted a couple days. At this point I made an appointment with Carl for him to pull the carbs. I flushed them again to minimize fuel loss on the way down. Carl pulled them out with amazing speed, cleaned everything then took the extra time to polish the slides and needle seats. Got home (120 miles) and it was leaking again!!! This time when I drained the carbs, I noticed a red speck in the jar. Bought a new fuel filter and heard the old one rattle when I took it out. I cut it open and the red glue had cam apart and was causing the carb issues. It was an EMGO filter but I guess everyone gets a bad one out the door.

I believe TN is strictly E10 but I only run non-alcohol in KY so I doubt that was the issue. I've been to Carl's several times since then and my Wix filter is still working fine. Now I'm jinxed....

[davidl]

Had a problem with my carbs a couple of years ago. Ended up sending them to Carl Leo. After I got them back they worked for a short while, now sometimes they work, sometimes they leak. Done the SeaFoam. Drained the bowls. Made sure no vaccuum leaks. I have changed the filters, probably 4-5 times in less than 4000 miles. After I got back from Kanab, took them off, Cleaned and reinstalled with a new filter from CarQuest. Did find very parts of rust in the old filter, drained from the fuel tank side. Started & still leak. Drained the bowls. Still leak. I give up for now, too hot, too ------. Sorry that didn't help. You might want to try CarQuest premium filter part # 86011. You will need to trim the ends off the filter but it will work. I keep thinking I will place a filter after the fuel pump to double protect the carbs but haven't yet. david

[Bruce in OK]

This time when I drained the carbs, I noticed a red speck in the jar. Bought a new fuel filter and heard the old one rattle when I took it out. I cut it open and the red glue had cam apart and was causing the carb issues. I've been to Carl's several times since then and my Wix filter is still working fine. Now I'm jinxed....

My experience was the same. The glue de-graded and went straight to the carbs. I may try the WIX filter this time. I was thinking about going OEM before I started the thread. I know I have an aftermarket in there now. Thanks for the input, guys.

[David (N. Alabama)]

I ran OEM in my XII and never an issue.

[SgtSlag]

Very good to know! I had originally planned to use a permanent filter, but gave up on the idea as they seem to allow much larger particles through (paper seems to filter the best). I have two OEM that I bought, and I probably would have gone after-market eventually. Thank you, Gentlemen! Cheers!

[Mr Jensee]

FYI, the John Deere filters work great.

[kw77]

Has any one ever tryed using the brass type inline filter? they use them on dirt bikes /generators,ect. Some of the older GM cars and trucks use the brass filter. I beleive the filtering micron level is around 140, paper filters are around 40 or 50 micron. May save haveing to clean carbs so much. Something to think about anyway.

[SgtSlag]

kw77, I guess I am confused by your post. Brass filters 140 microns and larger, and paper filters particles as small as 40 or 50 microns -- that means that more crap will get past the brass (anything smaller than 140 microns), compared to paper (anything larger than 40-50 microns will be captured by the paper media). In answer to your question, on the Honda CB750 forum I participate in, one fellow posted that he had used a brass filter, and it caused his carbs to get clogged with rust bits, which slipped past it. He switched to paper, and things are working much better.

Bottom line is filtration quality, really. If a permanent filter media can catch particles 40 microns, or larger, I would use it, as it is equal to paper, but since it is permanent, it would be cleanable, and re-usable. The particle size that a filter can capture, is what really matters, not the media doing the catching. Cheers!

[debron]

What is a WIX filter, part number, and where do you get them? (Never heard of them.) Are they a direct replacement or do they require modification such as the NAPA (smaller fittings) and Fram (larger body)? Also, are the John Deere filters an exact replacement?

[Mr Jensee]

Ron, the John Deere Part #AM116304 is an exact replacement and requires NO modifcations. Cheaper than the OEM filter as well. Physically they are the same size and designed for the same size fuel hose. It took me 5 minutes to replace it.

[SgtSlag]

debron, a Wix filter is the brand/manufacturer name. They make filters for several companies, who then put their name, and P/N, on the box. They make a wide range of quality filters for different companies. The products they sell under their own name, tend to be the higher end of quality.

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Sidebar:

I did some research on fuel filters, and micron filtration sizes. It was... Interesting. Some sources claimed that fuel filters should be rated to catch down to 20 microns (diesel applications), others stated that 70 microns was sufficient. Then there was one that discussed using two filters, with the primary catching 20 microns, and the secondary catching particles as small as 2 microns! Never mind the efficiency rating issue. I came away thinking that any fuel filter that is rated at 70 microns, is likely good enough for motorcycling (paper media, surprisingly, is often rated at 70 microns -- I thought paper was one of the best/finest filter medias to use...), and anything rated to catch smaller than 20 microns, will need two filters, and that is more than I want to bother with. I found one source that stated fuel injection systems, on cars, only filter down to 70 microns, as well, and it implied this was higher than what a carburetor system would need? As always, YMMV. Cheers!

[debron]

I found the Wix website. Their equivalent to the John Deere AM116304 (Wix 33011) filters at 12 microns. Their equivalent the the Fram G2 (Wix 33002) filters at 20 microns. According to them anyway.

[Bruce in OK]

I deleted the post. It was driving me crazy trying to figure what I was trying to say....

[Chris near Kansas City]

Virtually all diesel engines have a primary and secondary fuel filter. (However, my 1978 first generation diesel pickup only had one. I'm not sure on the current ones.) Many will also have a water separator/filter in front of the primary filter. (All of my Caterpillar equipment is this way.) It is needed to prevent erosion of the injector tips. Fuel is injected into the cylinders at extremely high pressure and contaminants would reduce service life of the fuel system considerably. The fuel also acts as a lubricant for the fuel system--another reason for the high filtration.

In real world application, gasoline burned in carbuerated engines can be pretty dirty by diesel standards and still run fine. When things get big enough (and sticky enough) to prevent the float needle from closing on the seat or if they plug a galley or the atomization orifices in the venturi, then our problems begin.

sorry Bruce, but couldn't read it the way it was.

[Bruce in OK]

sorry Bruce, but couldn't read it the way it was

I need to learn not to post when coming in from being out in the 110F heat all day. I don't really understand the point I was trying to make, either.

[HMB Don]

I only had one issue with the carbs leaking, it was #4. Until reading this I didn't know where I had gotten the gunk in the needle. Removed it and no more carb leaks. I live where it's never hot today the high is only 65, even then I change the fuel filter at least every two years or 36k with the air filter. I always used OEM parts. My 1200 had a lot of miles on it, other then that one time I never had any problems. My son now has my old 1200, before I gave it to him I changed both the fuel and air filters. He lives in much hotter weather, with this information I'll be changing the fuel filter this fall. Thanks.

20 years ago when I would take carbs in for rebuild they would always come back with a fuel filter of 4 microns, if they weren't used no warrenty.


Don Medina
2012 Voyager 1200

[Bruce in OK]

Well, an update. It seems that the current filter was fine. It was plastic with no paper, just a VERY fine plastic screen. I don't remember whether the mechanic came up with this filter or if I did. However, the debris in the needle/seat looked exactly like the filter glue when the carbs leaked the last time. My only conclusion is that some of the crud lodged in the pump or hoses somewhere and flushing the system did not get them to come loose. It was only one carb, but all were cleaned and replaced. A new OEM filter was put in place.

I'm considering buying a longer piece of fuel hose and splitting it to put another OEM filter between the pump and the carbs. Has anyone done this? Any issues with space for the filter?

[kjsett]

Well, an update. It seems that the current filter was fine. It was plastic with no paper, just a VERY fine plastic screen. I don't remember whether the mechanic came up with this filter or if I did. However, the debris in the needle/seat looked exactly like the filter glue when the carbs leaked the last time. My only conclusion is that some of the crud lodged in the pump or hoses somewhere and flushing the system did not get them to come loose. It was only one carb, but all were cleaned and replaced. A new OEM filter was put in place.

I'm considering buying a longer piece of fuel hose and splitting it to put another OEM filter between the pump and the carbs. Has anyone done this? Any issues with space for the filter?

How'd that work out with changing filter location?
. I just changed out the gas sender and thought I would change the fuel filter. WOOOwie,
they put it where????? I can just see it looking in from the right side over the Brake Reservoir. Any ideas out there on a way to change the fuel filter without pulling the gas tank (per the book). Love my ride, but I have never seen such a place to put it.