R.P.M.'s

[Lucasind]

....Looking to the 6 cylinder owners, for some info. Does anyone have a website To where I might find different size final drive gears for my 85. I'm looking to lower my RPM's at highway speeds....... has anyone out there already( "been there-done that")thanks in advance.......................tony

[Me Again]

Try this site
http://www.kz1300.com/
If you figure it out ,let me know.

[Lucasind]

Thanks for that website Bill, ....Not having much luck with this endeavor as of yet ,but not done trying..................tony

[trikebldr]

I dunno, Tony, but sounds like you're looking for hen's teeth! I'm used to finding just about any ratio you can ask for on cars, but bikes just don't sell in enough numbers to warrant aftermarket gearing changes. Prolly gonna have to go with a bigger rear tire.
Don't you like the sounds of those six cylinders revving? I do! Some engines thrive on higher revs (Most Honda car engines!), and my first '83 Voyager 1300 lasted over 200k miles! Let 'er rev!

[Lucasind]

Hello Bruce, I'm with ya on the easily changed out gearing on cars/trucks....done many. but as far as the bikes....it don't hurt to ask,,,,,nothin ventured nothin gained........In fact,I do like the way the pipes sing on the big six....sometimes ! But not mile,after mile after mile on the hi-way. I don't have the stock exhaust, and on a long trip I like a nice quiet bike, purring along at as low RPM's as possible....I realize,back in the day ,the national speedlimit was only 55mph,and MAWKAW put into production for this on the first 1300 in the late 70's and that same set up did'nt change,,,,,BUT......then the 1300 evolved into a voyager ,big, heavy, FULLY loaded TOURING bike.,Then the national speed limit went back up...the gearing should have changed with it.....but didn't....must be gettin old ! I was NOT of this opinion 30 years ago .....tony

[trikebldr]

Tony,
You crack me up! We both must be getting old! There was a day when I bought my first Gold Wing that I swore I would never woose out and put a fairing on it. Then I took it on a trip from LA to Vegas. Craig Vetter was my hero after that! It still took me a long time to learn what a cruiser was all about. Like, Kerker pipes on a long ride do not make for a pleasant ride! I was asked to stay behind the full-dresser for most of the trip!
As for pipes, I'm with ya on that! I like sorta loud pipes, but on the road, smooth and quiet keeps this old man happy. Stock 1300 pipes are just right for me. They really purr! For the street, a set like on this Valkirie works for me, too: (just after the 3 minute mark, gotta hear this one!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS8ZM2xKfuA#t=14

[Lucasind]

AAAHHHHHHH........YOUTH ! Great pictures, thanks for sharing those !
I like your wing's hi-way pegs ! ......................tony

[ghostler]

"Some of the nicest people ride a Honda." (Reminiscing about an old Honda ad the photos remind me of. )

[jre258 in SoDak]

....Looking to the 6 cylinder owners, for some info. Does anyone have a website To where I might find different size final drive gears for my 85. I'm looking to lower my RPM's at highway speeds....... has anyone out there already( "been there-done that")thanks in advance.......................tony

Check out the Shoodaben engineering web site. He has a kit for lowering the rpm's on the older concours. He might be able to adapt it to the older voyager.
Jim

[Lucasind]

WOW.....funny you should mention that Jim .....I recently was on that website, and am in contact with.........thanks.....tony

[trikebldr]

OK, soooo, Tony, what did he have to say? Can he do it? Inquiring 1300 minds want to know. Actually, I would like to build a second final drive box to go the other way for pulling a sidecar.

[Lucasind]

still too soon ......I'll post when I have some info.

[trikebldr]

After looking at his pics of the 7th gear, even if he can do it for a 1300, I can't see how it can be installed without tearing the whole tranny apart. It's not as easy as on the Concours.

[Lucasind]

.......The reply from shoodaben was, "even though it is a very cool bike... it's a dynasaur,and no one is supporting it"

[Lucasind]

....The reason this all started, for this lowering the rpm effort is, that my son Brad learned a lesson over the summer ! I nearly begged him NOT to buy the 1400 F/I NINJA,,,,, let alone ,to take it to the rally !Soooo uncomfortable to say the least ! He was asking me if he could ride my F/I 1300 to Denver, June 2015 rally. I'm O.K. with that.......but between now and then ,I wanted to put out some feelers on the possibility of making this "touring bike"....more touring friendly....we ride more closer to 80 than 70 and to have a engine turning those kind of rpm's ALL day long is just plain DUMB ! I may have to look
on craigslist for something else ,to make the trip .....tony

[trikebldr]

I would try the largest tire I could find that will fit. But, the rpm's don't bother me. Some engines thrive at higher speeds than others. I'm like you, Tony, I drive closer to 80 on 70mph posted roads. And, my old '83 1300, complete with sidecar, and usually a trailer, did a bit over 200k miles before I was hit and sold it. That low ratio was a bonus to me for pulling the sidecar. Honda cars are noted for handling higher revs better.

Forgive me for uttering such words, but maybe you need a Harley under you to get the low revs! Or, maybe a 1700 Voyager? Fours and sixes were just meant to rev!

Does your XII rev more than you would like, too? If not, then what is it's ratio compared to the 1300? Never have looked at the rear drive unit on a XII, but if it's ratio is higher, then maybe one could be grafted into the 1300.

Many 1300 rear drive units are available on eBay for around $50. It would be interesting to pick one up from both bikes to tear them apart and compare the ring and pinions for fit, IF the XII's ratio is more favorable! Anybody know what that final drive ratio is on a XII? I'm not talking about the overall ratio, but the ratio in the final drive only. Also, what is the overall ratio of the XII? It's 4.259 on the 1300, with a 2.484 in the final drive unit alone. That 4.259 is awfully low on a car, unless it is set up for drags!

One of the reasons I am thinking this is because manufacturing economy dictates that if parts can be used on several models, then why re-invent the wheel? Even if the rear drive housing has a few different bumps and grooves in it, the internal dimensions may be the same.

You guys with the shop manuals for the XII, help me out here. I just need to know what the final ratio of the rear drive unit is. Now, if y'all will excuse me, I have some eBay research to do on this!

Don't give up, yet, Tony!

[vxiirider]

Final Drive Ratio is 3.470 if I am reading the manual correctly.

[trikebldr]

Thanks, John! Boy, wouldn't that be a great ratio, Tony?

Well, here's what I found out. First, the XII's rear end is backwards! Even if you flipped it over and relocated the vent, it would then be running on the back sides of the teeth. No good! So, the XII's final drive is out. Too bad because it has the overall ratio that you are probably looking for.

Forgive me if I sound a bit condescending, but I just want to post all the details that affect the overall ratio of a bike for anybody who hasn't studied them.

Here are the numbers for the ZN1300:
19/26(.734) X 34/10(3.40), giving a 2.484 ratio with an overall ratio of 4.259.

Here are the numbers for the KZ1300:
20/24(.833) X 35/11(3.18), giving a 2,651 ratio with an overall ratio of 4.545.

What all this means is that there is a bevel gear set just before the drive shaft, with the drive gear being the 26 tooth and the driven gear being the smaller, 19 tooth. That gives the output of the transmission a 0.734 overdrive ratio into the driveshaft. Then, the ring and pinion in the rear final drive unit has a 34 tooth ring and a 10 tooth pinion, giving a 3.40 ratio. The combination of the two ratios give us a 2.496 ratio (they list it as 2.484). So, how do we get the overall of the 4.259? Well, that represents the total ratio of the engine's crankshaft to the rear wheel, which includes the primary chain's sprockets at the input to the tranny, the ratio of the 5th gear in the tranny, the tranny's output bevel gears and the final drive ring and pinion.

For our consideration in finding an appropriate rear end drive unit to try to give the ZN1300 a higher ratio (smaller number) that 34/10(3.40) is what we want to look at. We can't do anything about the primary chain's ratio (1.841), or the 5th gear ratio (0.931), or the output bevel gears ratio (0.734). But, if we can get a final drive unit with a smaller ratio number than 3.40, then we have a candidate for a swap. Well, we have probably the perfect ratio for you (35/11[3.18]) in the KZ1300's final drive unit! That's a 6.5% reduction in engine speed compared to the stock final drive in the ZN1300. What's ironic between these two bikes is that the KZ's overall ratio is much lower than the ZN's, which is not the way we want to go, but the KZ's final drive has a ratio that would give the ZN a much more favorable overall ratio!

The catch is, the KZ's final drive housing (second pic) has the shock mount just slightly rearward compared to the ZN's (first pic). A heavy duty bracket can be fabricated to accommodate this. But, the splined input coupling looks to be a bit bigger on the KZ. So, some machine work and really good welding would have to be done to mate up the end of the KZ's swing arm and drive shaft to the ZN's swing arm and drive shaft. Not that hard to do. Also, not sure if the splines to couple the wheel to the final drive are the same on both bikes, so just use the KZ's rear wheel. MIGHT need to make up some custom-sized spacers for the axle-to-swing-arm fit and also might have to make up new brake caliper mounts.

From what I saw on eBay last night, it could probably be done for under $250 in used parts (final drive, swing arm, drive shaft and rear wheel from a KZ).

See, Tony, no problem! So, when do we start work on it?

[Lucasind]

....Thank you very much for your research into this puzzle ..... A taller tire
(when this new one is shot) is looking like the extent of this project as I have two projects ahead of this one

You are correct about the shafts are on opposite sides of the 2 types of voyagers,making any parts swapping a NO ! ..... I have both bikes before me to look at each day, I do alot of looking and thinking and reading before I break out the tools !

Other guys on other forums are asking me if I have located the parts and /or formulated some sort of plan yet, cause they too are 1300 owners that have a bike made when the speed limit was 55 that are interested in lower rpm's also.

Take my 85' kaw 1100 shaft bikes....same story there, another high rev'n bike to hold that highway speed all day..... but I'm not gonna do anything to change that as they will definitely not ever be used for touring,,,,, the XII however is darn close to perfect ,turning a nice 3200 rpm @70
I'll think about all of the ideas you posted and again, thanks !!...................tony

[trikebldr]

Well, you got me thinking about this, and it turns out to be much cheaper in used parts than I thought, so I might just pick up some used parts for each bike to cobble this together to test out. Don't want to modify the original parts in case I don't like the outcome. A good winter basement project!

BTW, would that 6.5% reduction in engine speed be enough for you?