clutch job advice

[6ft1_grand]

Hello,

As part of my winter maintenance this year I will be replacing the clutch. This is a job I've never done before but I looked over the manual and it appears to be pretty simple.

The questions I have; What all should I replace while I'm in there? Should I just replace the friction plates or should I do the springs as well? Any other parts in that area that I should specifically address while I'm in there? Also, are there any tips or tricks that can make this job go easy?

My bike is a '95 with just under 50k.

Thanks so much for any help you can provide!!!

[doug of so fla]

?? Is there something wrong with the clutch?? They normally last the life of the XII.
Reason for asking is, it is kinda a extensive job and you do need some correct tools. Do you have a manual?
There are things to check and IF they are out of spec you can replace those items and that is all you would have to do.
Check spring tolerances (length) is most common and you can replace springs with OEM Or aftermarket, (Barnett are stronger) but sometimes make a kinda weird noise when taking off but a very good spring set-up.
Steel plates & fiber plates, unless are very burnt or worn or warped, usually are in spec.

Make sure you "start at the top" Meaning if clutch is bad, it is very possible your lever or master cylinder or slave cylinder or just fluid need the maintenance first..

50K mi clutch should be fine untill maybe 150K!! (Under normal use).
You will need a gasket and best to drain oil down to take cover off. I would just time it for when you need a oil change. Talking to Carl Leo on the board here for some tips and good advice before you start would be a good idea.

[6ft1_grand]

Doug, that's the kind of things I needed to know. Thank you!!!!

The clutch only slips when I really get on it. From what you're saying, I may only need to flush the hydraulic fluid????

I guess I assumed that if the fluid was dirty, you would have issues trying to get i to disengage. Since it slips at higher RPM's, I figured that would indicate warn plates and/or springs.

Should I start with a fluid flush and stay out of the gearbox for now?

Thanks!!!

[doug of so fla]

Yes, do a fluid flush & bleed and clean the clutch slave cylinder as it can get gunked up inside, also replace the seal so you know it is not leaking.

Check the pivot pin on the lever for wear, lever should have very little up & down play. Less than a 1/32" is great.
Plunger on the clutch master cylinder is 20yrs old.. check it.

Is your slip at high rpm when you are shifting or just giving it gas, Power on shifting on a XII is not for every one, if you ride the clutch thru the gears it will heat up and slip in the top 2 gears. You must be aggressive with the shifts, positive, quick. Most riders will not even notice "riding the clutch" but i have seen many do it. Very hard on XII and and it is NOT a race bike.

The springs are a weak point as they tend to get weak from all the use & heat. But should be good at 50k..

I do not know for sure but I do not think your clutch (95 ) has the clutch spider springs in it that did break and get pieces lodged in between the clutch plates.

A parts fiche check with your vin# or quick call to Carl should tell you or someone may chime in. I thought they were put in the newer than 95 XII's ??

Do you know what wears out a machine faster than usage?? Taking it apart... Let us know as you go and we may be able to help.

[SgtSlag]

My clutch went out this Summer, on my '93, at 65k miles. The metal, and fiber plates, were burned, and discolored. The springs were replaced with Heavy Duty springs, and I can really feel the difference even with the hydraulic clutch system. I had mine done by a professional (he showed me the burned/discolored metal plates). He told me that the HD springs would last longer, and prevent slipping. No regrets on my end. Cheers!

[6ft1_grand]

I've only put about 7k on this bike so I can't account for how it's been treated for most of it's life. Was it previously ridden aggressive or by somebody that never took their hand off the clutch lever....I'll never know.

I've only felt it slip a few times and I immediately backed off enough to allow the relationship to hook back up. One of the times was when I was in first gear. It wasn't a hard launch, I was starting off on a 90 degree right pulling out of a gas station. Once I got straightened up, I cracked it open and that's when it started slipping. Another time was when I was passing somebody. I downshifted to 4th and then took off around car. I didn't use the method of downshifting and pouring on the power at the same time. I only induced the torque application after being firmly planted in my desired gear selection. The clutch did not start slipping until I was about 3/4 of the way through my maneuver and the R's started reaching the upper register. In both of these instances, clutch was fully engaged. I think I only experienced it 1 or 2 other times but I can't recall the specifics of the situations.

SgtSlag, I was wondering about stronger springs, this is good information. Thanks!!!

[doug of so fla]

From what you describe the stronger springs may be the answer. But still do the fluid flush and lube& clean slave cylinder.
The Barnett one's I mentioned above would be a good brand to use, much stronger than OEM & just a little harder to pull clutch in.
And as long as you are in there of course you will pull the clutch plates out and make sure they are all in tolerance. If they are you should just clean and buff them up and make sure you soak them in clean oil before reinstalling them. If blued plates or worn pads or out of spec , replace.
Be sure they go in "exactly"!!! as the came out. stack them as they come out and keep them in order and put back in "exactly"!!! the same position as they came out, (VERY IMPORTANT)!!
Anyone know if 95 had the clutch spider springs??? need to find that out.

[carl leo]

95 will have 2 spider springs stacked. part number 39130-1071. less than $20 for the pair, i always replace them if i open the clutch. on most voyagers from 93 on with less than 100k all that fails on the clutch is these unless the machine has been abused. when they break slippage is usually in the higher gears first.

[doug of so fla]

Thanks Carl, & Happy New year to you & Cheryl!!!! & many more...
Your memory is not getting any older lol!!

John; Pretty good guess that the spider springs may be the problem.
They are a known problem with the XII clutch.
Get a set before you start & replace even if they are not broke.
Carl may be able to help you with parts and advice.

[carl leo]

a happy holiday to you also!! i do not recommend the barnett springs unless you ride mostly interstate. the heavy pull gets old very quick and the stock springs do a great job if everything else is set up correctly..

[6ft1_grand]

Thanks for all the information. I will completely flush and clean the hydraulics and then get into the case to check out all the friction components.

Just gotta say, this forum is awesome and the expertise I find here will probably save lots of time, money and frustration. Thank you for that!!!

[rustynut51]

changed my clutches last summer . only did the clutches and springs the rest was ok. bike had a hitch at one time so sure that was my problem of slipping at higher speed . now its all good at higher speed no more slipping .

[6ft1_grand]

Rustynut51, did you do the clutch job yourself?

I have just purchased the clutch holder tool and a precision caliper (for measuring the plates to make sure they're within tolerances). I think I have everything I need to do this.

[rustynut51]

all i did was slowly remove the six bolts for the springs .
took everything out . all the steels were ok. the basket
was ok reinstalled everything with the clutches after being soaked in oil
the brand i got had a two hour soak time. torqued spring bolts to spec's
put cover back on done. if you leave bike on side stand little to no oil lost.

[Dave]

If you're replacing anything, definitely replace the springs. I did a clutch repair on my 1995 XII several years ago. The plates were still within spec but every spring was out of spec (no longer long enough).

[doug of so fla]

Rustynut51, did you do the clutch job yourself?

I have just purchased the clutch holder tool and a precision caliper (for measuring the plates to make sure they're within tolerances). I think I have everything I need to do this.

John:: Just so we are all on the same page::

The (2ea i think?) "Spider " springs are inside the clutch basket.
The regular "Pressure" springs are on the outside of the clutch basket (5ea I think).
The "Spider" Springs are the ones that break a leg off and get stuck in the plates.
The "pressure " springs are the small coil springs that apply pressure to the plates from the outer clutch plates, They just get out of length tolerance.
The "Spider" springs are in yours and Kaw had problems with them breaking legs off and getting stuck in the plates making the clutch slip. They were not in the older XII's.
I would replace both sets of springs as long as your in the clutch.. Good luck & let us know how it comes out..

[rustynut51]

all I did was just the clutch springs and plates .
all was . but every one is different

[6ft1_grand]

So just got the clutch apart and this is what I found....

The clutch itself looks good from a visual standpoint. None of the steel plates have any blue on them or other indication of over-heating. They still have the texture with all the little dots. The friction plates still have plenty of material on them and do not look abused in any way. The spider springs and their little legs are all present and accounted for also.

I'm wondering if the pressure springs are out of spec. I will measure all of them and see if they are the same. I guess I should also look in the manual and see if there is a length they should be. If they get soft, will they get shorter or will they stay the same length and just be softer?????

I also looked at the hydraulic components. Everything on the motor side looked to be pretty clean and in good shape. On the handle side, it looked a little different. Where the pin on the lever pushes on the master cylinder, there is a dust cover that is all cracked. That pin is supposed to have some grease on it and everything seemed a little dry and dirty. I'm wondering if this is enough to keep everything from return to its place of origin once you let go of the clutch lever????? I will clean that up and replace the dust cover and put a dab of grease on that pin. Is it possible that my whole slipping problem is from a little dust on the plunger/pin????

Thanks everybody for your help!!!

[6ft1_grand]

There is one other thing that I'm curious about and hope somebody can answer a question.

The pressure springs, or the bolts that hold them in. See the photo below. there are 6 bolts. 3 of them were shorter bolts that screwed into an extension that was screwed into the clutch hub. the other 3 were longer bolts that went all the way to the hub without the extensions. Is this the way it's supposed to be? Could this makes things out of balance?

2016-01-15 05.41.22 by John Krecklow, on Flickr

[triton28]

on the Partzilla diagram for a 1995 clutch there are six of the clutch bolts, 3 of which you show mounted, and then there are 6 clutch spring holders which are held onto the 6 clutch bolts by means of 6 hex head bolts, 6mm X 16mm long.
It would appear to me that if you only have 3 of the clutch bolts and the other 3 are long bolts, that is not the correct setup.
With respect to imbalance, I would be guessing to offer an opinion.
http://www.partzilla.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dave