k&n air filter

[buzzcut]

Hi
I noticed in the dollar for dollar a K&N substitute. Quick question.....In the past I have always had to re jet the carbs with these filters. There seems to be no mention here for the 1200. That seems to imply the stock filter provides more than enough air if no mods are required. Am I on track here?

Thanks

[SgtSlag]

I ran a K&N in my 1979 Honda 750. My butt dyno said it was a good move, more power, more acceleration. However, it does allow more dust through than a stock paper filter. I have never used a K&N since the 750. No real need for it, IMO. Per the forums I read, people who actually ran their bikes on a real dyno, found that the K&N improvement really did not register. That's what I read. Your Google-fu may differ.

I am riding for the long haul, on a 1993 motorcycle. I want it to be reliable, and for it to last. Our Voyager's fuel pump went out, 70 miles from our Hotel, in Arkansas, a few years ago. Rode back to the Hotel with a tow-truck driver, bike on a trailer behind us. We loaded it onto our trailer, and brought it home. Only time it has left us sitting, since we bought it in 2010.

Rode our 1979 Honda 750, two up, around Lake Superior, in 2009. Just us and the bike, no one else, no other vehicle for us to fall back on. That bike was 30 years old, overloaded with gear, and two heavy people. It performed flawlessly, and we had the most incredible tour of our lives on it. Then we bought a real touring bike, the next year. We turned into "Trailer Trash", and we have never regretted it: we park our Jeep and trailer at our Hotel, and we ride cloverleaf trips from there.

We prefer mostly stock on our Voyager. Cheers!

[Molalla+Voyager]

What SgtSlag said "However, it does allow more dust through than a stock paper filter."
It also plugs up faster, the pleats are shallower.
I have a 2000 VXII I love it, except for front fork springs and rear shocks it will stay stock.
JM $.02 W
Steve

[SgtSlag]

Another point to ponder: K&N filters were designed for use in race car engines... Race car engines are torn down, and re-built, after every single race! They can afford to let more dust in, along with more air for combustion, because the engine will be re-built after the race! Not all race car engine performance tweaks are applicable to street machines. Your choice. Cheers!

[GrandpaDenny]

What SgtSlag said "However, it does allow more dust through than a stock paper filter."
It also plugs up faster, the pleats are shallower.
I have a 2000 VXII I love it, except for front fork springs and rear shocks it will stay stock.
JM $.02 W
Steve

Properly oiled, they do not allow more dust through - less, in fact. That's why they plug up faster. They also stop water from getting through - handy in off-road vehicles, but not an issue with our bikes (hopefully and assumedly - never know about Nails). Once upon a time, cars used oil-bath air filters exclusively, before the invention of the disposable paper filter elements. It's the oil that traps the dirt, not the filter media - that's just there to hold the oil.

Having said that, and having used K&N filters in multiple Jeeps, one for well over a quarter-million miles, I would have to say my fully qualified, official, definitive answer is... meh. whatever. However, comparing $45 for a reusable K&N with, what did I pay for the OEM filter, $25, and it needs to be replaced every year or so, then I guess the K&N is a viable choice. Or I could go the modified filter element route like Gene Kap showed me, using the OEM filter frame as an adapter for a modern car filter element (I think a Camaro?).

I don't know. Personally, I have been considering the K&N. My present air filter element is due for replacement soon. I also like the idea of not adding stuff to landfills (like packaging, old filter elements, etc.).

[triton28]

1987 Chevrolet Camaro 5.7 liter, 350 CID V 8
Needs to be trimmed to fit in the stock plastic frame.
Dave

[Van Voyager]

Not sure about the OEM filters on the Voyager II but the OEM paper ones on the ZN1300 can be washed and re-used several time. - maybe and option for the VII?

[GrandpaDenny]

Not sure about the OEM filters on the Voyager II but the OEM paper ones on the ZN1300 can be washed and re-used several time. - maybe and option for the VII?

Wash a paper filter? Really? That's a new one to me. As for the ones on the VXII, they can be (and should be, according to the maintenance schedule) blown clean with compressed air every 3k miles.

[buzzcut]

Thanks for all input. Up here in Canada its $75 for a k&n. Still less in the long run 9 stock is 30 to 35) . but even so, every time I used one in my previous bikes I had to re jet the carbs to at least a stage 1 dynojet kit to have the bike run well. I am not seeing that mod on this forum so I presume the airbox is not actually restrictive in any way. its just for economy.... in fact on my zg1000 the bike ran impressively better with restricting air flow but still needed re jetting.

[Van Voyager]

Thanks for all input. Up here in Canada its $75 for a k&n. Still less in the long run 9 stock is 30 to 35) . but even so, every time I used one in my previous bikes I had to re jet the carbs to at least a stage 1 dynojet kit to have the bike run well. I am not seeing that mod on this forum so I presume the airbox is not actually restrictive in any way. its just for economy.... in fact on my zg1000 the bike ran impressively better with restricting air flow but still needed re jetting.

This is similar to my experience. I think I've probably tried K&N's for most bike's I've ever owned but typically go back to paper filters as the bikes seem to just run better.

[GrandpaDenny]

I think I've probably tried K&N's for most bike's I've ever owned but typically go back to paper filters as the bikes seem to just run better.

Hmm. I haven't heard anybody mention mileage loss on VXIIs with the K&N filter. I do remember, however, getting pretty dismal mileage on my Jeep pickup with the K&N filter decades ago. I was thinking the carb was the problem. Hmm.

I have seen posts that our VXIIs do NOT like pod air filters; they run far better with the stock air boxes.

[SgtSlag]

The 1979+ Honda CB750's ran with Constant Velocity (CV) carbs, just like the Voyager XII's. There were guys who tried to switch them from the OEM single chamber air box, and they tried re-jetting, going through many a new jet... They never succeeded, there was always a flat spot in the rev spectrum. The 1969-1978 CB750's had non-CV carbs, and the pod filters worked great.

Not very long ago, a fellow posted on here that he had succeeded in installing pod air filters on his XII. I asked him if he had any flat spots, and he said no. Even if he succeeded, I am not interested. I am happy with stock. Cheers!

[GrandpaDenny]

Once upon a time I put K&N pod filters on a KZ550LTD. Didn't have any problems at all that I recall. I did it because I thought they looked cool I just may go with the K&N air filter element (the one that fits in the stock air filter element location in the upper air box, not pods). I like reusable. As for whether they filter better than stock, well my my old Jeep pickup, still running the K&N air filter element I installed in the early '90s, is still alive and well and still living in Florida with something over 300,000 miles on the original engine.

[Van Voyager]

Once upon a time I put K&N pod filters on a KZ550LTD. Didn't have any problems at all that I recall.

Did your 550 have 'Direct Lift' carbs (I know the earlier ones did - not sure about later models)? As SS suggests, PODS are notorious for causing tuning difficulties when used with Constant Velocity Carbs.

[GrandpaDenny]

Did your 550 have 'Direct Lift' carbs (I know the earlier ones did - not sure about later models)? As SS suggests, PODS are notorious for causing tuning difficulties when used with Constant Velocity Carbs.

I have no idea. It was an '82. Trouble-free bike except for the front wheel bearings. First wife and I rode all over the place on that bike.

[Van Voyager]

Ya, an 82 would have, assuming it was original, direct lift carbs.

[GrandpaDenny]

Ya, an 82 would have, assuming it was original, direct lift carbs.

Yep, bought brand new.

[Molalla+Voyager]

Food for thought.
A testing lab did a comparison of many brands of paper air filters and the K&N reusable.
Take a look, it convinced me.
http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm

Take Care
Steve

[GrandpaDenny]

Wow. Holy Kronk. Wow.

I'm so eloquent, ain't I?

So... no K&N for Gertrude. AC Delco it is!

[SgtSlag]

That is impressive data! Thanks for sharing! Cheers!