Thread almost gone on forward oil drain bolt hole

[joemaniaci]

I was tightening it down this morning after having drained the oil. I noticed how it was getting tighter and tighter and tighter and then loosened up. I wasn't even close to really tightening down.

Well I took the bolt back out and along came some metal shards with it. Looked up and saw that most of the threads are gone. This is a 98 with only 15,000 miles on it, how could this happen?

So has anyone else had this happened?

General question, tapping and threading. Anyone have any experience?

Also, bits of metal hidden above. How do I go about getting it all out?

EDIT: Apparently helicoils will be my salvation.

EDIT2: Am I seeing things right? This thing has an oil pan doesn't it?

[joemaniaci]

What was left...



Now, the thread is all gone.

[JHD]

I would helicoil it. There won't be much to drill out since most of the threads are gone. You could do it in place using grease on the drill bit and tap then install the helicoil with some thread lock, break the tang and flush out the pan for any bits that might have end up there after the thread lock has set up. Should be good as new.

http://www.repairengineering.com/helicoil.html

[joemaniaci]

I would helicoil it. There won't be much to drill out since most of the threads are gone. You could do it in place using grease on the drill bit and tap then install the helicoil with some thread lock, break the tang and flush out the pan for any bits that might have end up there after the thread lock has set up. Should be good as new.

http://www.repairengineering.com/helicoil.html

I don't think I can risk it, considering the 2-3 chunks I first noticed, and the two pieces I have a picture of are it, that means there could be a lot more up there.

I am right thought in seeing that this thing has an oil pan right?

[JHD]

I would helicoil it. There won't be much to drill out since most of the threads are gone. You could do it in place using grease on the drill bit and tap then install the helicoil with some thread lock, break the tang and flush out the pan for any bits that might have end up there after the thread lock has set up. Should be good as new.

http://www.repairengineering.com/helicoil.html

I don't think I can risk it, considering the 2-3 chunks I first noticed, and the two pieces I have a picture of are it, that means there could be a lot more up there.

I am right thought in seeing that this thing has an oil pan right?

Yes it is an oil pan that has a gasket between it and the crankcase. Take a look you should be able to pull it out after removing the radiator and exhaust headers. If so you will be able to clean out the screens etc.

[SgtSlag]

Get yourself a clicker torque wrench. It will ensure that you get the bolts tight enough, but not too tight. Make sure you set the correct torque on the wrench, as well. A clicker torque wrench will cost <$40. It is the only way to be sure you won't over-tighten any bolt/nut/whatever.

They come in two varieties: foot-pounds, and inch-pounds. Both have their applications on the bike, but the foot-pound wrench is the one you will use most often. Cheers!

[Steve do]

I myself have never had much trust in a helicoil. The next time you take the plug out the heliciol may back out. What is that piece that is across the hole now, it looks like a helicoil piece that didn't get broken off, plus the piece on the ground looks like a piece of it also, doesn't look like aluminum to me, but I have been wrong before. If I went to the time to take the pan off, I would tap it to the next bolt size, get the proper bolt, a aluminum or copper washer to seal it. It really doesn't take much pressure to seal off an oil pan bolt. I would pull the pan, you don't want any metal floating around in there, if so it could cost a whole lot more in the long run. This is just my thoughts. Good Luck.
Steven

[joemaniaci]

I myself have never had much trust in a helicoil. The next time you take the plug out the heliciol may back out. What is that piece that is across the hole now, it looks like a helicoil piece that didn't get broken off, plus the piece on the ground looks like a piece of it also, doesn't look like aluminum to me, but I have been wrong before. If I went to the time to take the pan off, I would tap it to the next bolt size, get the proper bolt, a aluminum or copper washer to seal it. It really doesn't take much pressure to seal off an oil pan bolt. I would pull the pan, you don't want any metal floating around in there, if so it could cost a whole lot more in the long run. This is just my thoughts. Good Luck.
Steven

The piece that was up in there was the same as that on the ground. Helicoils are stainless steel, so I could technically get a magnet up in there, but it's still not worth it. Hopefully I can get it off by this weekend, I'll just take it somewhere to have it done. By the time I got all the right tools, I'll have spent the same and probably screwed something up.

Anybody have a manual that can give me the torque specs on all applicable bolts?

[JHD]

Joe there is another way to fix it. Napa sells a self threading drain plug. I know others that have used these with success. The helicoil would be the best route using the stock plug. I still think doing it in place is very doable. There is a full pdf manual posted in one of the sections. Do a search, you should find it.

[Skibou]

I see Carl is on line at the moment. Maybe he'll be as helpful to you as he was to me when I had a similar problem.

[carl leo]

the drain plugs are very shallow and it is difficult to get a helicoil inserted. i have had good luck with timeserts as they are full thread repairs but this is just a fix. the only way to really get a proper job is to replace the pan. thanks.......carl

[joemaniaci]

Yeh, even if I could easily do helicoil, or rethread it, or use a expanding rubber plug, I am still stuck taking off the oil pan anyway to remove chunks of stainless steel.

So I think I will take it to a shop and have them rethread it to a larger size and that will be that.

[Steve do]

If you take it off, have it threaded to next size, correct aluminum washer to seal it and clean it out, YOU will sleep better. I'm sure Carl can supply you with another pan if you want, he has gotten me several parts and helped countless others.

Steven

[Skibou]

When you take the pan off you'll see what Carl meant by the thread being very shallow. It's in a small boss in the pan, and there's not a lot of meat there for any work. It cracks easily. (Ask me how I know.) I would check if Carl (or any other member) has a pan for sale. I bought one from Carl at a very reasonable price, including gasket and plugs. If you are going to remove and replace the pan yourself, you're doing the bulk of the work anyway, so you might as well install a new one.

[JHD]

A new pan will set you back $113 @ partshark.com which I feel has the best pricing for XII parts.


http://www.partshark.com/fiche_section_ ... &fveh=9130

[Jim Loiselle]

Joe,

Stay tuned, we will be replacing the oil pan on the Road Toad at the end of this month. Ricky and Chris near KC will be doing the job as I plan to record the procedure in pictures.

Thanks to Carl Leo for the parts.

Jim in Indy

[voyager55]

Be sure to buy some bright lights for Chris when taking pictures lol

[Chris near Kansas City]

I imagine there will be plenty of light, since the garage door will most likely be open. Rick's garage is neither heated nor air conditioned. Oh, the humanity....

[Rick near Kansas city]

The garage door faces west, plenty of sun. Saturday 5/31 with the Road Toad. Ride in at your own risk, to say Hi. PM or Email me for address.

[joemaniaci]

Yeh, I wasn't thinking clearly having the back of the bike facing the garage door.

EDIT: New oil pain is on the way, you guys convinced me to play it safe. And I ordered washers since they're not on either of the drain plugs in the first place. And that O-ring and a new gasket.