01 intermittent bogging of throttle

[bigmac7139]

so my buddy has a 01 voyager. it is having intermittent bogging issues. it doesn't happen all the time and the times seem to have no rhyme or reason. every thing moves right along and then all of the sudden when accelerating the bike it not go above 4k rpms and starts to lose power. it happens at random. he recently purchased it and the history is not well known other than documentation that was provided when bought. so far we have changed the plugs,started using seafoam through it. changed the battery because the old one was old and worn out. charging falls in range. oils been changed.
so we are looking for ideas on what to start with. once this started we could sit at an idle and have no issues running, but as soon as you start to roll on the gas even in neutral, it would lose power and die unless we backed off the throttle. we removed the air horn and battery tender leads thinking this was the issue, it actually started running after this with no issues. so we went for a ride to see if it resolved it. thinking it may have been the culprit, but a lass it started up while actually riding. they would try to put on the gas to make gear changes and it would start up again. let the ideas begin.

[Brealytren]

You stated you removed the Air Horn - not sure that that is.....if your talking about removing any part of the air intake system it will cause the engine to stumble. After cleaning the carbs on my bike I left the air filter out thinking it would be no problem for a quick test ..... It wouldn't accelerate at all. Put simply, the carbs need a high level of vacuum to open correctly. The small amount of vacuum the filter supplied cured the problem! The bike requires a complete stock intake system to run correctly. Thanks Carl!

Hope this helps

[bigmac7139]

Yea the electric air horn is not the issue, that had more to do with being to change the battery and removed all the extra attachments to take the extra load off the battery. The thought is fuel/air issue. When purchased,the bike was road home and ran like a top. It sat for a couple weeks while waiting to get tagged, once tagged we tried to take it out on a ride.
It was low on fuel and began to start the issue. After removing the extras it "magically" started and ran.we changed the oil put a little sea foam in the gas tank. Took it out for the ride, first stop was about 30 miles out no issues.left for another 20 miles or so no issues. Once starting up again this is when it began again. We rode it this way for another 20 miles trying to get back home. It did it off and on occasionally. We pulled up to a light asked him about it , he states its was still doing it, the last 10 miles or so we got back into town and he says it was no longer doing it. He took it back out yesterday and it was back.

So here's the thinking, either when he let the tank get low, it sucked up sentiment and it's clogging the fuel filter, our something is clogging up the carbs. Occasionally it should like it's trying to back fire like it's not burning all the fuel. We have checked the lines, had to tighten the boots from the carbs to the intake because they were loose, replaced the spark plugs already.

So the last question is, what is the catcher tank for? and where
does the oil/water/fuel that fills into this tank come from?

[voyager55]

Put a new fuel filter on & Drain the carb bowls, easy to do, 4 screws

Keep using Sea foam for a few tanks, 1 ounce per gallon regular use, I'd add more for extra cleaning thou. Sounds like gunk buildup

[Mr Jensee]

Just curious. Can you get hold of a timing light? An inexpensive timing light won’t require external voltage source. Timing light has two wire test leads. Remove spark plug wire from plug terminal. Connect one of light’s test leads to end of plug wire, other test lead to spark plug terminal. Turn engine over. Timing light’s bulb will flash each time light receives pulse of high voltage. If you have no flash during the time engine is bogging, the problem could be a failing coil or the ignitor. If everything seems fine there, I would start to check the fuel system, start with the fuel pump, fuel filter, then to the carburetors. Something is starving that engine under load, either from fuel or from spark.

[bigmac7139]

So i was finally able to take it out yesterday and see what exactly it was doing. It is still intermittent. But here are a couple of things i wanna ask, I'm leaning to the carbs needing to be gone through. First off when topping off the fuel, i get a small amount of fuel dripping onto the ground. This makes me believe that either the float or needle of one or more of the carbs are leaking. When this issue starts to pop up, i am able to pull the clutch,blip the throttle a couple of times and start accelerate with power once again. Making me think that from time to time the carb or at least one of them, is getting too much fuel and not burning quick enough causing it to bog down until it burns through it. First time this started to be noticed was when they passed a car on the highway and came back to rest at normal cruising speed(60/65 back road).

I don't have a timing light but i may have to go get one, i know when we changed the plugs the 3rd plug from left as sitting on the bike, was slightly wet, not sure if this is my sign as to which carb is having issues.

So heres my next question. We leave on a bike trip next week thats going to take us here from Kansas city out to the west coast and back. Looking at about 5k milage wise. Im wondering if the carbs off my 93 would work on his 01? They both are 1200s, i know i don't have the issue he is having, and i am taking another bike.

Out of the 160 mile ride yesterday, maybe 5/10 actually had a issue and not consistently, after blipping the throttle 8/10 times it cleared up. I just don't want to get into the rocky's up in Montana on bear tooth's pass and start having issues. Mine is just not ready to make it or i would let him take mine. Thanks again

[Ditto]

Im wondering if the carbs off my 93 would work on his 01? They both are 1200s, i know i don't have the issue he is having, and i am taking another bike.

Yes. the carbs are the same so there should not be any problem changing them out.

[Mr Jensee]

Since you are mentioning that at least one carb is draining through the float overflow, yes this could very much be your problem. Get this fixed first. Swap carbs and test. Chances are that the float needle and orifice need cleaning on at least one carb. I would check the entire bank to be sure. Might not even need parts. If you can get hold of a torch tip cleaning tool, very cheap at a welding supply, it would do wonders to help you clean out all those tiny port holes once the carbs are open.

[bigmac7139]

Thanks for the info, pulled the carbs off tonight and found them to be really dirty,going to try and clean them out tomorrow being we ran out of time tonight. Another issue that we found was the foam around the outside of the air filter was disintegrating, and actually found piece in the carbs. So were going to change the air filter and fuel filters tomorrow and try and clean them the best we can without swapping parts just yet, and give that a try. If that doesn't work then we will pull the carbs off my bike and use them till we get back from vacation.

Thanks again for all the help and ideas.

[bigmac7139]

so after pulling the carbs off and removing the float bowls, we found a lot of dirt and build up and what appears to be rust and other debris inside. cleaned them out,replaced the fuel filter and cleaned the fuel pump the best we could. thinking that when he got the gas tank to a low point it started sucking up sediment front he bottom of the tank. just a guess anyways. after putting everything back together it has been running like a top, no more leaking. so far no bogging or lagging on acceleration. now we might have to pull the gas tank and possible either clean and etch and try and coat it, or get a new one.

[Mr Jensee]

Replace the fuel filter which you will find behind the chrome cover on the left side of the bike. If the tank is dirty you want to keep as much gunk getting out of the tank as possible and into the engine.

[Heavy Armor]

Replaced the fuel filter (not too difficult), no change.

HOWEVER! I found the issue. It is indeed a vacuum leak. Not where I expected though.... it's around the middle bump-out of the cylinder head cover gasket. If I spray right at the bump, the engine almost dies. I was previously too focused on the intake boots and hoses. Got a little crazy with the spray and started noticing a difference, and managed to pin it down.

If you tell me the engine has to be removed to take off the covers, I'm selling the bike, dead serious.

[triton28]

Unless you have a leaking head gasket or a leaky rubber seal of the cylinder head cover then I don't see any direct connection between the combustion chambers and the exterior face of the "bump out" area.
A leaking head gasket would be obvious and a leaky cylinder head cover would have oil collecting/running down the face of the cylinder head casting.
I suspect you are experiencing the spray collecting in an aerosol fog and finding it's way around the carb mounting rubber boots; but that is just an opinion on my part.
Regards,
Dave

[Heavy Armor]

Unless you have a leaking head gasket or a leaky rubber seal of the cylinder head cover then I don't see any direct connection between the combustion chambers and the exterior face of the "bump out" area.
A leaking head gasket would be obvious and a leaky cylinder head cover would have oil collecting/running down the face of the cylinder head casting.
I suspect you are experiencing the spray collecting in an aerosol fog and finding it's way around the carb mounting rubber boots; but that is just an opinion on my part.
Regards,
Dave

But spraying the carb boots directly around the mating surfaces doesn't have the same effect, which is why I'm so stumped.

[triton28]

Perhaps one of the numerous vacuum lines is detached/broken up in the bump out area and is drawing in the higher elevation spray. There are a million of them it seems. You do have a puzzler there!
Back to your original question about removal of the engine to R&R the head cover, I once did remove the 8 mounting bolts and tried to remove the cylinder head cover cover as 1 piece. But I soon gave up on that idea due to lack of vertical clearance to the frame. I suspect that if I had removed the cover side connector bolts it may have worked but by then I had the engine out of the frame. I have always had an engine out before I removed a cover. It looks to me to be a nightmare to try it in situ because of the dowel pins and the elevation needed to clear the cam clamps/oil lines and then join the 2 halves with the rubber gasket perfectly positioned. The cover gasket is one piece rubber and it fits into a groove cast into the sealing face of the cover. The cover however was designed in 2 halves so one would think it could be changed in the frame but I have never tried to.
Perhaps others who may have accomplished this feat of dexterity can offer more specific knowledge.
Dave

[Heavy Armor]

Perhaps one of the numerous vacuum lines is detached/broken up in the bump out area and is drawing in the higher elevation spray. There are a million of them it seems. You do have a puzzler there!
Back to your original question about removal of the engine to R&R the head cover, I once did remove the 8 mounting bolts and tried to remove the cylinder head cover cover as 1 piece. But I soon gave up on that idea due to lack of vertical clearance to the frame. I suspect that if I had removed the cover side connector bolts it may have worked but by then I had the engine out of the frame. I have always had an engine out before I removed a cover. It looks to me to be a nightmare to try it in situ because of the dowel pins and the elevation needed to clear the cam clamps/oil lines and then join the 2 halves with the rubber gasket perfectly positioned. The cover gasket is one piece rubber and it fits into a groove cast into the sealing face of the cover. The cover however was designed in 2 halves so one would think it could be changed in the frame but I have never tried to.
Perhaps others who may have accomplished this feat of dexterity can offer more specific knowledge.
Dave

Yeah the manual isn't much help in that arena: "Remove the cylinder head cover."

[Nails]

I once did remove the 8 mounting bolts and tried to remove the cylinder head cover cover as 1 piece. But I soon gave up on that idea ... Perhaps others who may have accomplished this feat of dexterity can offer more specific knowledge.

I replaced the valve-cover gasket without pulling the motor. I resorted to a little gasket seal and a lot of prayer, and it went together without leaks. ("Knowledge" seems ambitious -- more like just ordinary stubbornness.)

My bike (like Canuck models?) is missing that reed-valve thingy on the front of the right half-cover. If present, it's probably a deal killer.

[Heavy Armor]

My bike (like Canuck models?) is missing that reed-valve thingy on the front of the right half-cover. If present, it's probably a deal killer.

Yeah seems like that's what most of these vacuum lines tie into. Not even sure what the point is, if some models don't have it. Awful lotta superfluous piping on these things.

[Nails]

I believe it's basically a PCV valve on steroids, sucking gasses in the top of the motor back into the airbox. But Dave would know better.

[triton28]

The Canadian Voyager XII units were NOT required by Canadian environmental law to be as hosed up so to speak for addition of clean air to the exhaust gas ports, nor were our models required to have fuel vapour entrapment such as the California model Evaporative Emission Control System requirements. This resulted in a considerable lack of plumbing on the Canadian models. A blanking plate was installed on each side of the cylinder head cover in place of the "Clean air" reed valves and hose connection ports and none of the valves or hoses to the hose ports were required on the Canadian models: see service manual pages 1-17; 1-18; 1-19; 2-4; 2-19 and 2-20.
In fact, the Canadian models had NO hoses to/from the carbs except for the float chamber vents, the ignition ecu vacuum advance hose from #1 carburetor and the float bowl drain hoses.
The 4 brass vacuum nipples on the rear of the carb bodies had 4 of the rubber blanking off caps.
Thank heavens we did not have all of the plumbing the California models did for the EECS.
In a prior post I posted dimensions for the blanking plate should anyone wish to make one. Note a thick gasket must be used for this plate but I think I made note of that on the plan.
Dave
Edit: I found the plan.